Thoughts on expanding the Bouzouki family

[Thomas Lovell]

I recently spent some time in Greece and bought a Bouzouki. I'm sure it is a tourist model. It needs a little setup work, but looks and sounds nice.

This got me to thinking, I have enough instruments for a Strum Along, why can't they all look like the Bouzouki?

It's time the rest of the family gets a fourth string or course!

Thoughts?

Suggestions?

Scale lengths: 14", 17", 20", 23", 26"

Or Suprano, Alto, Tenor, Base

Baglama, Tzoura, Saz, Pandura, Tamboura, Laouta

Bouzoulin, Bouzoulele, Bouzoula, Bouzoujo, Bouzoutar...
Bouzoucello

Then come the bowl/body sizing questions.

It's ok to say Go away kid, you bother me.

[Jim McConkey]

The transition from bowl back to flat back was led by Irish musicians, who fell in love with the sound of Greek Bouzoukis, but found them difficult to play in concert. The flat-backed versions they helped develop are much more ergonomic to play. There already is a full family. Here in Baltimore there is a well-known mandolin orchestra, which has every size and shape of 4-string, double-coarsed instruments (the bass versions have single strings). They come in bowl-, flat-, and arched-back varieties, in shapes from teardrop- to guitar- to fiddle-shaped, and sizes ranging from double bass to soprano. Use whatever shape suits you and build a suite of them!

There is already an acronym for the guitar-sized versions of these, CBOM, which stands for Cittern, Bouzouki, Octave Mandolin.

[Thomas Lovell]

Jim, thanks for the response.

So, first thought is "I'm free!

Second is; Once again, a day late and a dollar short.

I have a nephew in Boston, may send him on an expedition.

I have a brother in San Diego who spends a lot of time in San Francisco, I've already tasked him to expedition.

Ramblings:
Why does the Lute Society shun Bouzoukis?

Is my range of Scale Lengths realistic?

The Irish (I am one) just need to do more situps (like myself).
...

Would it be wrong to prefer string mounts at the end of the body and a loose bridge, like my Bouzouki, Banjo, and Mandolins; unlike Lutes, some Ukulele, and Guitars. Maybe this is a topic for another discussion.

[Christ Kacoyannakis]

Tom, there are Greek instruments of various sizes. The smallest is the baglama, and it can be made very small with a body usually carved out of solid wood (about the size of a large cup), and about half scale of bouzouki. Then there is a 3/4 sized body with a scale a few inches shorter than the bouzouki called the tsoura. There is also a miso-bouzouki, which has a larger body than the tsoura, but smaller than the bouzouki, and a scale shorter than the bouzouki. FYI, there really isn't anything written in stone on the size or scale, so it varies from maker to maker. The original bouzouki has only 3 courses and a somewhat smaller body, but longer scale length than the 4 course instrument we see today, and it is still very popular with traditional Greek musicians. What there is not is a large bass instrument in the bouzouki family. That role was taken up by guitar or upright bass or now the bass guitar.

I agree, the bouzouki is somewhat awkward to hold, but traditionally it is played sitting down, which makes it easier. If you are going to stand you do need some sort of strap.

As far as where you connect the strings, the tailpiece at the end of the instrument with a loose bridge is traditional, but you can change it however you want. You will probably need to alter the bracing pattern if you go with a pin bridge, and it does change the sound somewhat.

[Jim McConkey]

Thomas, you can find both guitar-style through the top string mounts, and tail mounts as well. Most mandolins use tail mounts. The octave mandolin I built does just as your propose - tail mounted string and a loose bridge. Works fine, and the tops do not have to be braced quite so stiffly to compensate for the twist that can happen with bridge mounted strings.

The native born Irish are actually in a lot better shape than we generally are. As Christ says, the flat backs just make the instruments easier to play standing up.

[Bryan Bear]

I know virtually nothing about these instruments so should probably keep my mouth shut and listen. But. . . I made a guitar shaped Mandolin years back and intended to have a pinned bridge only to find out that I was limited in options for ball end mandolin strings. Remember as you are designing your instruments and deciding about scale length and tail piece v fixed bridge, you want to make sure you can easily find string sets in the guage you want, long enough for your design and with the ends you want.

[Thomas Lovell]

Jim Re: CBOM - sounds like a Cover all bases or We don't want to offend nobody.

Christ: thanks for grounding me a bit. I obviously need to do more research, both historical and contemporary.

I wasn't aware of the miso. First I found was the conversion of an unplayable Neopolitan mandolin. I have purchased a Suzuki 226, should be here next week.

First I found of the Laouto was that it was larger, then I found it is tuned like a uke.

What I know is; I don't know enough.

Unfortunately my closest Mandolin Orchestra (I know of) was in Austin and didn't survive Covid.

Part of my internal conflict is respecting the past, BUT, what can I do differently?

One aspect settled; I will use a tailpiece. This will also allow adjustment of the string length after the bridge.

Thanks again

[Thomas Lovell]

Bryan, thanks for that point. While I'm not trying to do something that hasn't been done before, it is different and may require previously unavailable parts. Noted and added to the checklist.

[Thomas Lovell]

Hope all had happy holidays.

I continue to research, learn and practice.
I will continue so to do.

Here's what I have so far:

Baglama ½
Miso-Tsoura 5/8
Tsoura 3/4
Miso-Bouzouki 7/8
Bouzouki 1/1

I haven't decided about a Bouzoucello...

I also tuned a mandolin like a Bouzouki. That is fun.

More to follow

[Mark McLean]

If you want to build a bouzouki style instrument get a copy of this book by Australian luthier Graham McDonald:
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/bouzoukibook.html
It is a great step-by-step guide to building a number of different styles and sizes, and includes really good plans. It also has enough information that you can riff on Graham's designs and make something unique if you want to, which is what I did.

Here is my 8-string bouzouki-guitar type of thingy. I play guitar but have no experience playing mandolin family instruments tuned in fifths. This is tuned with guitar-style intervals but the 4th and 3rd strings have octave partners, while the other strings are single. This gives it a nice jangly/chimey quality, but it is pretty easy to play (if you are a guitar player). BTW it is also a mild fan-fret multi-scale, 568mm (23") on the highest string and 604mm (23.8") on the lowest - just because I thought that might be fun. I string it with light guitar strings (11-47, with something like an 8 and 12 for the octaves) and I usually tune it about a third above standard tuning. Probably the only one of its kind in the world, and not a big market for such things if I ever wanted to sell it. I guess it is a keeper.

[Mark McLean]

Lightweight open headstock with lots of carbon fibre reinforcement to strengthen it, and mini-Stealth tuners. Bolt-on heel-less neck (kind of like a Stratocaster) and CF rods inside to add resistance against string tension.

[Thomas Lovell]

Mark, that is a wonderful instrument you have made.
I did say I had been to Greece, but I didn't say the Bouzouki I got there was Greek, which it is.
It is the Greek Bouzouki family I wish to expand.
I had seen the book you suggest and discounted it because the subject is Irish, not Greek.
I see now that the subject is instrument making. DOH
It will provide information about making an instrument derived from the Greek Bouzouki as I intended to do from the beginning!
Thank for sharing your out of the box experiment.
I will go now a obtain a copy.