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pick-ups -- where to park them?

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:03 am
by Robert Haines
Continuing the saga of the Kay "Vanguard II" I'm building-up: I am wondering about pick-up placement. I've read about nodes and anti-nodes until my head spins, and yet pick-up placement still somehow feels like it's one of the dark arts that I will never grasp. This seems especially true since at every fret, every string is going to have a different set of nodes, and it would be impossible to place pick-ups in positions to avoid all nodes, and optimize every possible note! With that in mind, how much should I be concerned about pick-up placement? I mean, beyond throwing two darts at the guitar while blindfolded, and installing the pick-ups where they hit.

I might as well mention that this guitar is going to mostly be used for making gritty, lo-fi chords (think: late-'70s/early-80s stuff like Billy Bragg, Paul Weller in early The Jam, or Mick Jones' early work with The Clash, if those names mean anything to you).

The "Vanguard II" originally came with 1, 2 or 3 pick-ups (this body had just one) but I doubt that whoever it was that designed them gave any thought to their placement beyond what "looked right". So I may have an opportunity to sonically at least improve on that!

The original versions, c. 1966


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The new Eastwood "reissue" seems to have kept the same placement, which probably says more about their desire to market these to nostalgia buffs rather than to serious players.

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I've gotten 2 pick-ups for it: a fairly hot single-coil for the neck position (with 4 poles, as suits a tenor guitar like this will be), and a dual-rail humbucker for the "bridge" (or bridgeless tailpiece). I'll have to rout a space in the body for that one. That's no problem, other than knowing where to rout!

Here's what I'm dealing with right now:

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I can get that single-coil pretty close to the neck (is there any benefit from getting it as close as humanly possible?)

What are the thoughts on setting the bridge pick-up at an angle, to (allegedly) enhance the bass strings by having the pick-up be further from the saddles, but the treble strings closer to them to enhance the "twang"?

It's my understanding that 6/12-pole humbuckers should not be angled, since the poles would no longer be positioned directly below the strings, but that's not an issue with rails, since each rail acts like one big pole, right?

Having just 4 strings means that in theory, I could angle that bridge pick-up to almost 45-degrees without weakening the magnetic field around the strings (its magnets are 2.25" wide, compared to the 1.5" width of the entire single-coil). Any thoughts?

Since I'll be fabricating my own pickguard, in theory I could hook-up the pick-ups and electronics, string the guitar, and play around with the exact positioning until it sounded best, then make the pickguard to accommodate the final positions. But having said that, how much of a difference am I likely to be able to actually hear by moving a pick-up say, 1/4" one way or the other? Again, we're talking chunky chords here, not clean, intricate solos a la Pat Metheney or Allan Holdsworth.

As always, thanks in advance for any opinions.

Re: pick-ups -- where to park them?

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:58 pm
by Barry Daniels
The subject of nodes is a non-issue in my mind. As soon as you fret a string the nodes will move so it's a moot point. Also, a quarter inch shift will make no noticeable difference. Pickups get placed rather crudely. Shove one up near the neck and another near the bridge. If you add a third, stick it in the middle. Nothing precise about it.

Re: pick-ups -- where to park them?

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:00 pm
by Barry Daniels
Your rail pickup can be turned anyway you like because there are no pole pieces to worry about.

Re: pick-ups -- where to park them?

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:26 pm
by Robert Haines
Thank you again, Barry!
It's bewildering to me how much that it seems some guitar people obsess over pick-up placement. I read page after page of debate over it (at times a bit rancorous) on Harmony Central and other fora, so I thought I should ask before presuming it was all nonsense along the lines of the old audiophile debate over using a green Sharpie to mark the rims of CDs.
OK: I will guesstimate the locations, and not worry about it.

Barry Daniels wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:58 pm The subject of nodes is a non-issue in my mind. As soon as you fret a string the nodes will move so it's a moot point. Also, a quarter inch shift will make no noticeable difference. Pickups get placed rather crudely. Shove one up near the neck and another near the bridge. If you add a third, stick it in the middle. Nothing precise about it.