MIMF

Greetings all, and a Happy New Year,
I would like to ask the MIMF collective what would be the best way to remove a glued-in neck from a solid body electric guitar.
The guitar in question is my first home-built effort, completed a few years ago and mostly Im happy with it. The sound is good, aesthetics very happy with and neck carve slinky (if not a little too thin). There are two rather large problems however. One - the bridge, despite my best efforts, was placed incorrectly so good intonation is impossible without replacing the bridge. This i can live with. Number two is too little of a neck angle resulting in a far higher action than i would like despite saddle/bridge at lowest setting and trussrod at the limit of what i think it should be.
So, the answer i have come up with is to remove the neck and change the angle of tge mortice base, shave off the base of the mortice to reduce the mortice thickness, or utilise shims to effect the same.
If this is successful, im happy to either re-glue or convert to a bolt-on. Finishing was tru-oil so im fairly happy with that.

A couple more bits of info - the body is a two piece block of padauk, the glue used is titebond original and the tenon is a simple extension of the neck affair (not unlike an elongated dovetail).

Any help greatly appreciated as the guitar gets very little play due to the action.

Cheers,
Adam

A photo might help.

Adam,

One possible way to proceed would be to layout the holes for a future bolt-on plate and drill the 4 holes until you just touch the back of the neck in the pocket and then inject steam using a used espresso pot, thick rubber brake line and steel needle. You might also need to drill down at the corners and along the sides of the neck if there is glue between the body and the sides of the neck.
It's not just the moisture from the steam but also the heat which will break down the titebond. You'll need to be patient as it will take a while heat up the whole joint enough.

Barry - I cant do it right now, but a photo of what area, specifically?

David - Thanks for the input. Perhaps unfortunately there is a glue line on all contact areas of the joint.

Cheers,
Adam

Another option you could try is to slowly dissolve the titebond with Bob Smith Industries (BSI) Un-Cure which is normally for CA glue but also does a good job with titebond. Again drilling tiny holes along the glue lines and infiltrating the Un-Cure and letting it just work away over night might be enough though it certainly wouldn't hurt to get in there with a pallet knife too.

A photo of the neck joint would be useful.

Removing this neck may be somewhat destructive, especially of the finish. Since you are having to replace and move the bridge anyways, can you solve the string action problem by getting a different height bridge? What kind of a bridge are you currently using? You could route a lower pad out for the bridge to sit a bit lower if that is the direction you need to go.

Barry - I shall get some photos of the neck joint up. With any luck, i might have some wip photos hidden away. Im not too bothered about the finish - after a couple of years there are minor steps where the maple/walnut strips were inlaid into the body (if you search the forum for 'stripey padauky' you should be able to find my original thread) that would benefit from re-sanding - and refinishing in tru oil shouldnt be too onerous. Regarding the bridge, its a Gotoh 510 and i recall the studs being an extremely tight fit but routing out a shelf had occured to me also. Perhaps, overall, that might be the most efficient solution - even if i have to 'dig out' the studs, i can repair the holes and camouflage them.

Many thanks for your help,

Adam

I went back to look at your original posts. You did a tremendous amount of work in the first place, so I would think you'd want the fixes as invisible as possible. Your neck joint (though it doesn't show) looks like it would be very much like a les paul, opening up into the pick up cavity. look at the first photo here : http://brownsguitarfactory.com/restorat ... ir-images/. Somewhere this is included in a detailed article, but I think you can see what was done. The edges of the mortise are defined in the pick up cavity and a few frets were pulled to get some steam in. You have the advantage of a renewable finish as opposed to the incredibly fragile ancient gold. I bet that neck will come of more easily than you think.

You don't say what is wrong with the bridge placement, but if it is too close to the neck, maybe you can move the neck away during the reset. Its probably not a large amount, or you'd be less likely to live with the off intonation. Once you get the neck off, clamp it back on to see if you can get the outside strings to intonate. If the bridge is too far from the neck, maybe you can trim a bit off the end of the neck. If the intonation is OK and you just don't like where the bridge pieces sit (at the end of travel), then it may not be worth playing with the string length.

In my mind's eye (myopic to say the least), I think you can make the necessary adjustments without calling attention to them.

Just my thoughts, worth everything you paid for them.

Joshua - Thanks for your comments regarding my guitar, and the info + link. The bridge is just a little too close to the neck to allow for spot-on intonation. If you have a look at the pictures below, hopefully it's clear that the saddle is at the extent of its rearward travel (both individual saddle on the low-E, and the grub-screw adjuster on the stud-fixing) and also that the bridge is as low as it can go currently.

The pictures below should also give an indication of the length of the tenon/pocket and the rough geometry of the tenon a full-width extension of the neck. The neck was certainly a fairly tight fit, and the part of the body that curves around to meet the neck is quite thin too. I have also included a photo of a plectrum (1.09mm) that was the closest thing to hand to gauge the string action around the 14th fret (strings sitting open). Fretted at the first fret and at the body join gives a little string buzz, so perhaps a bit more relief in the neck would be a benefit if I get it that far.
Remaining photos to follow.

And another few photos of the finished neck plus some WIP shots :
Hopefully that should give you enough info, but if not I can take some more. Thanks for all the help so far.

Cheers,
Adam

If that were me, I would consider a different bridge with lower overall height and maybe a different footprint before removing the neck. You could fill those bushing holes and probably cover them with the right bridge. I'm not an expert, but I'd try that way before taking the neck off.

There is no way you are getting the neck out without breaking off those ultra thin cheeks. Trust me on this.

If you need a bit more neck angle, the easiest way would be to pull the frets, plane down the nut end of the neck, and then re-fret.

And Matthew's advice about moving the posts back a bit a good approach. Easy fixes are the best especially when there is no risk.

Yeah, I have to agree with Barry. It would be much easier to move the bridge, than take the neck off.
To lower the bridge I would remove the bridge posts and bushings. Fill the holes with plugs, and re-drill them just a hair further back with a good brad point bit, if that is the direction you need to move it.
Before drilling the new holes for the bushings, drill out just the top of the hole with a bit the same size as the lip of the bushing. Drill just deep enough so that the lip of the bushing sits even with or just below the surface.
If that isn't enough downward movement, you can also file the saddles down to gain a bit more.

If your intonation isn't out too far, you could simply turn the saddle around, so the square edge is to the rear of the bridge.
This moves your break point to the rear, possibly being enough to set intonation properly.

Since you are a maker, and the huge investment is in the body (which I quite like), I would take a more drastic approach. The neck angle is wrong, and planing the freboard won't fix it enough, I don't believe, and you say the neck is very thin to start with. You need a certain bridge height to get a good string height for playing comfort. You need to adjust the intonation. I would leave the bridge where it is, raise it to a normal height, cut the neck off, use the template you probably still have to rout out the mortice to remove it from the body, make a new neck and set it to match the bridge location and the angle you need. Rather than moving the bridge I would move the nut location farther away. It will change the location that the fretboard locates over the body join a bit, and you might even get another fret out of it. It's a PITA to make a new neck, but I bet it would take less time than trying to reset what you have and move the bridge.

Moving a bridge takes a couple of hours. How long does it take to make a neck?

Planing the "fretboard" is not a drastic measure and could easily make up for at least 1/16" of action raising, if that would be sufficient. But we are all guessing here since Adam did not provide actual measurements. If removing material from the nut end of the fretboard will make the neck too thin then Adam could take the reverse approach and replace the fretboard with one that is thicker at the body end. Again this would be MUCH less work than chopping off the neck, routing out the tenon, and making an entire new neck.

Dear All,
Again, many thanks for the suggestions and advice. I had considered removing the neck destructively and replacing with a new neck, but as the neck itself is OK I feel this is perhaps a little wasteful of some nice rippled maple. Plus, I have a slight sentimentality for it being my first home-build. And whilst your suggestion of utilising the original template is very reasonable, I used a method of extending the neck taper with straight-edges to make a temporary template (as found in Martin Kochs' book), so working up a new template would add further inaccuracies (in my hands at least!).
Neither would I feel comfortable planing down the fingerboard or replacing with a new one.
So that leaves me with removing the bridge and re-setting. This also means that if I am not happy with the result, I still have the 'neck' options if needed. After all, this is not an instrument I am offering for sale, merely one I would like to be able to play easily. Of course, the natural extension of that would be to raise the action some more and have a slide guitar?
I am comfortable with the principles of how to remove the bridge studs, and will jury rig a means of accurately re-drilling/routing on a carved-top. However, my recollection is of the studs being an extremely tight fit - can you suggest any mechanisms of releasing tight-fitting studs? Applying heat (soldering iron tip, say) to the stud? Brute force with protection on the guitar top? Drill narrow diameter holes around the stud to allow a little 'release'?
I shall take some measurements when I return home tonight, but I suspect the solution will remain the same.

Thank you all again for your assistance - the advice freely given on here does make it a fantastic forum indeed.

Adam

I just had a thought. Some Fender style bridge/tailpieces can be adjusted very low to the top of the instrument. You can look at some and measure up. You might be able to simply leave the threaded inserts where they are and install a Fender style tailpiece over it. http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Par ... ridge.html

It would be handy if TOM bridges that had different intonation offsets were available. If you don't need much compensation you might be able to pad the inside of the bridge's "C" contact points with some lead (Pb) snippets or liquid steel to push the bridge back enough.
Regarding pulling tight studs, I would get them as hot as you can with a big soldering iron (use a little solder on the tip to help conduct the heat) keep heating the studs until you see smoke, wait for them to cool and try lifting them out. The metal will expand pushing the wood back and also melting out any dried finish that might be serving as glue. After the metal cools and shrinks the fit will be ever so slightly looser.

I think the neck could be cut away from sides with a razor saw or Japanese equivalent. The end grain glue line at the heel, under the pickup won't have much strength so you'll only be dealing with the button tab. You could start a cutting between the tab and the back of the neck and work that glue line with steam or you could get ahold of one of these ubiquitous "Multimaster" reciprocating saws and saw straight in at least a couple of inches towards the back of the neck joint.
I picked up a multimaster saw from Harbor freight for $20 though I wouldn't skimp on the blade assuming that the Fein blades will fit.

Lastly you would clean up the neck pocket with a router or a sharp straight chisel and line the pocket with veneer to make up the kerf of what you cut away. A tapered pad could be glued to the back of the neck to correct the angle and the neck could be slid out enough to correct the intonation issue and back filled with epoxy.
It would undoubtedly be easier to to glue the veneer to the sides of the neck than into the pocket.

Before removing your bridge, measure your action at the 12th fret, with a capo on the 1st fret.
If you have less than .050 to lower, you may be able to simply file the saddles down.
The only limits to that is the string clearance at the front edge of the bridge, and the saddle itself.
Once you get your action low enough, you can file the tops of the saddles down to match the groove depth.

Also, try and turn the saddle around so that you move the break point to the rear. This MAY be enough to intonate the guitar properly.
If that were to work, you have saved yourself a lot of work.

For removing the bridge post bushings I found a threaded rod with the same thread as the post.
First I heat the bushing, then thread the rod in, and use it to pull the bushing. A small wiggle usually does it.
You will have to plug the holes anyway, and you may have to drill the holes out bigger to do that depending on what size the hole is, and what size plug cutter you have.
Try not to drill a hole larger than the top lip of the bushing.
In the past I moved a T.O.M, bridge back 3/64 of an inch. The top lip of the bushing covered the repair almost completely.