MIMF

"Jack-less"? Is that a word?... In any case, I have always and reflexively used an endpin jack with my tailpieces. Until that is one failed spectacularly. The cheap mystery pot metal from China just snapped at the weak spot where the plastic sleeve inside ends and its just a tiny amount of metal holding everything together. I've decided having a jack in the back is just not a great solution anyway and moved the jack to the treble rim like most Gibson Archtops have. That left me with the question of what to put in its place to hold the tailpiece.

For now I just shoved a piece of 1/2" Aluminum rod to hold everything together. But of course now I'm nervous about what I should get to replace it that will be strong enough to hold up to the tailpiece pulling on it. I have seen the "No Jack" retrofits:

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Par ... ndpin.html

Of course I can plug the existing hole with a wood dowel and drill for a traditional endpin:

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Par ... ndpin.html

After having the heart stopping experience of having what sounded like an explosion in my lap when this thing broke, everything looks suspect. I need a solution for this guitar and future guitars. Can't have this happen on a guitar I sell. That normal ebony pin seems very small suddenly.

This guy sells beefy ones meant as a retrofit, but at his prices I could buy my own mini-lathe and turn it myself:

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/plugs.asp

Has anyone else had a problem of failing endpins? Will a basic wood endpin hold up to the pull of 185lbs worth of strings?

As far as I know, end pin jacks are designed for straps to support the weight of the guitar, not for anchoring tailpieces, which have a hundred times the pull. I have never had an end pin jack fail, but I also do not have any where the jack supports a tailpiece, and all my end jacks are high quality to begin with.

I suspect your problem is mostly due to using cheap, knock off parts. The end jack is a vital part of the electronics - it is just not a good place to skimp to save a couple dollars. It is supposed to last for the lifetime of the instrument. Get the best quality end jack you can find, even if you don't use it to attach the tailpiece.

Thank you for your input. This would be a problem unique to builders, like Benedetto, who use a strap style tailpiece. Perhaps the manufacturers of these endpin jacks are unaware that a major manufacturer uses them in this way, and in fact describes this use in a widely circulated book. I agree that most builders are not thinking of this use, and I can understand why you have no experience with this issue.

I personally buy my endpin jacks from StewMac, but perhaps you know of a better source? Regardless, I have decided that I do not want to use the endpin jack for this purpose. I do not think the current ones are being made with this use in mind and I don't want to take the risk of another one failing. As I mentioned in my OP, if I want a jack I will now place the jack on the body as a show in the second picture and not expect it to perform a double duty.

However, I still need an endpin to secure the tailpiece. Hence my question as to what non-jack endpin I should use. Will a standard ebony pin, which I likewise suspect isn't considered for its ability to withstand the force of a tailpiece, be enough? Benedetto's book shows a diagram for an "ebony" pin, but fitting into the same 1/2" hole. The only endpin I could find to those dimensions is the guitarsaddles.com one, but its pretty pricy. Is there another source? Are the ubiquitous thinner tapered ones enough?

What do people who do use this type of tailpiece use?

EMG makes their own jacks for the AGC systems and they are the best designed jacks I've ever seen. They sell a lot of discrete parts as replacements so it'd be worth asking them if they would sell the jacks on the side as well.

I'd be happy to turn you an endpin prototype for the tailpiece strap if you send me dimensions. It would take all of 5 minutes to do something like that. There's no reason why it couldn't be African blackwood, snakewood, pink ivory or any solid hardwood in that league if you aren't thrilled with good old 6061-T6 alloy.

Wow, so the whole tailpiece came flying off under full string tension?! That must have been spectacular, indeed!

I have been using 1/4-20 hex flat head furniture bolts for neck attachment and strap buttons. With your modern looking CF top, I think a piece of industrial looking hardware would fit.

If not, I think you should take up David on his offer. It's something he does very well.

Thank you, Jason. I don't know why I didn't think that the pressure on those neck bolts must be somewhat similar to the endpin. They aren't all that beefy, and they never seem to snap. I think that maybe I just got a bad one on that jack. I still don't think that I'm going to use them for endpins. But I feel less worried about the traditional hardwood endpin.

So David, are you thinking of an aluminum endpin? That is some serious cool. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe do some home anodizing and dying a black?

Aluminum is probably OK sonically but woods would be easier to turn. Drilling out the center would lighten things up though I doubt it would have any influence on the sound. If you wanted additional mass then brass or steel would be the ticket.

So just to give this conclusion, I discovered that LMI sells brass endpins. I bought a couple and am confident they are not going to snap off. They look good too.

http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-woo ... wood/brass
Price is right too!