Mini lathe: mega cheap

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Jason Rodgers
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Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

I'm thinking of getting into a little bit of turning. I've been making a few conductor's batons for myself and fellow band directors, but my method is less than ideal. It is the "bulb" of the baton that I need to turn (baton shafts are tapered fiber glass ice fishing rod blanks). So far, I've made four batons, after a little trial and error, with a drill press DIY vertical lathe. Here is one I made out of oak for my friend and colleague Brian.
baton - REDUCED.jpg
Just last week, I made another baton for my friend, Nancy, and she was absolutely tickled pink. She said, "You should sell these!" My wife has told me that, too, but I've always figured it is a rather limited market, and I don't want to make a fun project a task. But, I've also considered turning volume knobs and bridge and end pins, so investing in a real (and probably safer) setup might make it all worth it.

So now I'm looking at very simple mini lathes. I don't want to spend more than $100 total on this setup. Of course, I'll be watching craigslist for small powered lathes (like a few I've seen from folks who thought they wanted to get into pen turning), but I'm open to simpler setups than use an accessory motor or something.

For example, Grizzly has this little getup...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Hobby-L ... nder/H2669
When it comes to the basic components of a lathe, there is the bed, the tailstock, the tool rest, and some sort of power head (and of course the various chucks and centers). I really like the simplicity of this rig, and you can't beat $60 with a stick. I don't know if I want a whiny hand drill powering it, though. I have a couple spare motors of the 1/4hp 1750rpm type. What sort of shaft, bearing, and belt and pulley arrangement could I get to use a motor with this lathe?
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
Chuck Tweedy
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Chuck Tweedy »

The Grizzly thing looks questionable to me.
Aluminium extrusion is just too light to be the bed of any lathe.
I'd keep my eye on craigslist and other used tool sources for a real tool.
Likes to drink Rosewood Juice
Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

Are your concerns about flexing of this aluminum bed, Chuck? For my purposes, I'd be turning pieces no larger than 1" diameter and 10" length (if I was going to do several baton handles out of one spindle, for example; otherwise, maybe only 3"-4" length) and probably running under 1000rpm. The thing that drew me to this product is its simplicity and compactness. Would bolting it to a plywood base and clamping it all to my benchtop provide adequate stiffness?
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
Chuck Tweedy
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Chuck Tweedy »

Flexing and stability.
I've worked on many different lathes, and big, heavy stable machines are a dream to work on.
Little crappy ones are a nightmare.
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Mark Swanson
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Mark Swanson »

Maybe David King will see this and have input...he knows a lot about these things. I bet that your best luck would be in finding something used.
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Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

Noted, Chuck. I want something simple and compact, but I don't want to be fighting and cursing it. If I'm trying to make this process easier/faster/safer, I'll look for the right tool.

I might research some older Craftsman benchtop lathes, as well as keeping my eye out for the smaller Jet and Rikon machines.

Thanks! And yes, I always hope David King stops by!
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
David King
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by David King »

Jason,
I'm very partial to metal lathes aka engine lathes for turning wood. If you are striving for any kind of production and repeatability they are a must. The $100 budget is going to be a limitation so I'd dismiss any new machine and start looking for specific lathes that can do the job in the hopes of finding one at the price you can afford. My main lathe is a Jet 9x20 that's been heavily modified. It's been a good machine and I've seen them sell on Craigslist in harbor freight colors for as little as $500. You'd need another $300 in tooling at a minimum.
You might be perfectly happy with a hobby lathe. The 7x12 harbor freight lathes can be had for around $300 with a 25% coupon but they are very cramped with tiny cranks that would drive me nutty. That said they are extremely popular for modding and CNC conversions. Other candidates would be a Sherline, Taig micro, Proxxon, Unimat or one of the older Sears/Atlas 6" lathes. The very best of these would be the Emco-Meier /Prazzi lathes from Austria or a British Myford 7 but prices will probably make you shudder.

My other lathe is an old Hardinge DSM which I paid $1500 for but needed to spend another $1000 on a phase converter and 440V step-up transformer. Tooling for this lathe is wonderful but also astoundingly pricy if you aren't lucky and patient on eBay.
I wouldn't have appreciated what the DSM is capable of if I hadn't spent years mucking around with conventional lathes first. It can make the same part over and over in minutes or seconds and hold .0001" for days. Once set up it's simple enough for a small child to operate. Learning to set it up has been akin to getting a history degree. Very few local folks seem to remember how so I've been working it out bit by bit on my own.

I think you need to start by asking how much bench space you can give up and how much weight you are willing to deal with. My unimat 5 weighed about 20 pounds, the Jet is 235 Lb and the Hardinge is just about 1200Lb. You might decide that a Shopsmith drill press lathe is plenty for your needs. God knows they are plentiful and cheap.
Clay Schaeffer
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

If you see yourself getting into making woodwinds then a small metal lathe is probably the way to go. For turning the things you mentioned a simple wood turning lathe or a small jewelers (watch makers) lathe should work fine.
Light weight lathes tend to have vibrations that make turning things smoothly difficult. I have some small watchmaker "Boley " type lathes and the beds on these are quite heavy for as small as they are. They have a single post and mount to a bench through a hole for easy removal. They often use a sewing machine motor for power and you can hook up a foot petal to vary the speed. Usually there is an index pin that allows you to rotate the head stock a set number of degrees for cutting gears. You can find them on ebay and sometimes (cheaper) at flea markets.
Bob Hammond
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Bob Hammond »

I've gotten a lot of fun from this Delta 46-250. It's got a small footprint, and it shouldn't be too expensive to find used. I have the 24" bed extension NIB, but If I can the find that much space then I'm going to move up to a bigger lathe, or maybe find one of the smaller old Craftsman/Atlas machine lathes.
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Mario Proulx
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Mario Proulx »

You likely already have a compact lathe... Your drill press! Sure, it's vertical, but it works. Clamp a plywood scrap to the table, drill a 1/4" hole part way through the plywood, and press-in a 1/4" dowel punch/marker(the little pointy things), add a touch of graphite or grease to the point, and there's your tail stock...
Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

Mario Proulx wrote:You likely already have a compact lathe... Your drill press! Sure, it's vertical, but it works. Clamp a plywood scrap to the table, drill a 1/4" hole part way through the plywood, and press-in a 1/4" dowel punch/marker(the little pointy things), add a touch of graphite or grease to the point, and there's your tail stock...
Yep, that's what I've been doing, and it does work. Aside from it just being awkward and uncomfortable (I get a kink in my neck from leaning down to keep an eye on the profile), I'm worried about putting that much time on my drill press. Most of my shaping is done with a small gouge, and between roughing, sanding, and finishing (CA sealer followed by shellac) that's close to an hour of spin time per baton.
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

David, Clay, and Bob, thanks for the specific suggestions. I've been spending some time on craigslist, ebay, and vintagemachinery to see what's out there. Really, I'd like to keep the total footprint down to less than 24" long by 12" deep. It would need to be able to live under a bench (as you may have seen in my shop pictures) or take up precious little space on the benchtop. I will search for jeweler's lathes, as that sounds like a scale that would suit me. And yes, I will likely have to push my $$ ceiling up a bit.
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

Crap. I've gone and fallen in love with jeweler's/watchmaker's lathes. They're perfect! And they look so cool! Some incomplete and simple units on ebay for under $200, but they can get expensive real fast.
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
John Sonksen
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by John Sonksen »

Jason, this looks like a pretty good deal: http://portland.craigslist.org/nco/tls/4118198568.html
Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

Thanks, John. Yes, I saw that one. It's out of my price range right now, and, now that I've discovered these wonderful little lathes, too big! But cool design, huh? Those older tools had curves and lines with style.
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
David King
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by David King »

What makes a lathe useful in my opinion is a three jaw chuck and a hollow spindle. You need a spindle through-hole that's big enough to accommodate your largest intended workpiece.
Most watch lathes don't allow this. You can buy a new taig micro lathe from Lee Valley for $284 w/o motor. A taig's through hole is 9/32". A 7x12 spindle through-hole is 3/4" and therefore more desirable for bigger work at essentially the same price (Harbor Freight $399 -25% coupon).

Your best used bet right now is http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/4143795002.html but it's missing major parts and not necessarily the one you want with that 17" long bend. Patience is a virtue.
Jason Rodgers
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Jason Rodgers »

The depth on that one would more than make up for the length in terms of storage. Hmm.

So, what's a hollow spindle and why do I need one?
-Ruining perfectly good wood, one day at a time.
David King
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by David King »

The hollow spindle allows you chuck a dowel of infinite length that you can keep feeding through the headstock as you make the same part over and over again.
With a three jaw chuck you need to stop the lathe to open the chuck and draw out more material. With a collet chuck system you don't the lathe at all to open and feed the material for the next part. That saves a considerable amount of time and a lot of wear and tear on the drive system but we're getting ahead of ourselves here.
I guess the bug I'd put in your ear is that you can make a lot of useful and precise bits of tooling for use all over guitar making. Just this evening I was making a series of drive plates to fit every common pickup bobbin for a friend who needs to get back to pickup winding to supplement his income. I'm constantly making bushings for tuner holes, pot holes, screw holes that need to be filled and resized or re-drilled in new locations. I really can't imagine life with out a lathe. Of course I don't have a TV so I'm perhaps more easily entertained.
Steve Senseney
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by Steve Senseney »

One reason to consider a larger foot print is that once you get started turning, you will want to do larger items.

If you are at teacher in a school, do you have access to a wood shop?
David King
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Re: Mini lathe: mega cheap

Post by David King »

There's a Shop Smith lathe at The Rebuilding Center for $40. These usually have nice variable speed drives.
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