Differences in batches of Hide Glue

[John E Giarrizzo]

In approximately in 2000, I purchased Behlen hide glue L940-00255B 1/97. Just used up the last of it. Using it for violin making. Purchased a new can, B940-00255, Lot #:629608 Q211.

First thing I noticed is that the smell is different. The previous can had a sweet smell. The new, a more sour smell.

I mixed up a batch with the new can, in the same ratio of water to glue as I always have. It seems much thinner than previously.

Do different lots have differing characteristics?

Thanks,

John

[Bob Gramann]

Could it be that like there are differences among pieces of wood in the same species there are differences among cows? I've noticed that each container of hide glue I've bought from LMI is just a little different from the last. I've adjusted the water content very slightly. I've had no problems with any of it.

[John E Giarrizzo]

Thanks, Bob.

I'll adjust the water ratio and do some test peices. I did use the thinner mix to glue in some purfling. High strength isn't really needed there (I think), so I'm not too worried.

The difference in smell had me concerned. The old stuff was really sweet. Because the new stuff had a sour smell, thought maybe it was rancid or spoiled.

[Mario Proulx]

Yes, every batch will be different. For that reason, I purchased a small barrel in late '99 or 2000 and will have enough for my entire career, and then some.

The smell might be a difference in grades, or even different animals. High clarity glue is pork while regular is beef. And if it came from that big country that keeps WallyWorld supplied, all bets are off as to what critter it came from....

[John E Giarrizzo]

I purchased the first batch from International Luthiers, when they were still around. Second from my local woodcraft.

I knew exactly how the first batch behaved, now I have to learn all over. Oh well, I guess I just have to adapt and be flexible. I do miss that sweet smell, though.

Mario, you're right. If from over there, who knows what's in it. Just read where 500 dogs have died from jerky treats from there.

[Mario Proulx]

I don't know how much of it you use, but going right to the -only- North American source might be worth it. It's what I did(192g high clarity), as advised by some of my mentors... The minimum at the time was 50lbs, methinks, but it may be different today.

Milligan & Higgins

http://www.milligan1868.com/

[John E Giarrizzo]

Thanks, Mario.

I emailed the company and yes, their minimum order is 50 pounds, way too much for my use. But they sent me a list of distributors of small quantities.

[Mario Proulx]

That's nice of them! I can highly recommend their 192 gram, high clarity glue. Wonderful stuff!

[Waddy Thomson]

Toolsforworkingwood.com has good high clarity hide glue granules at pretty decent prices(Probably M&H). You can get 1 lb or 5 lb bags. They also have other strengths.

[John E Giarrizzo]

Thanks, Waddy.

They have the high clarity, and also what they call "Marquetry".

They say that the Marquetry, which I assume is "normal" HG, has a longer working time than the high clarity, and that the high clarity is more "tacky" (whatever that means)

More working time appeals to me. Is the high clarity worth sacrificing working time for? Or is this not really an issue?

[Mario Proulx]

It's likely that the "marquetry" glue that they say has a longer open time is simply a lower gram strength. For me, the couple extra seconds isn't worth losing the benefits(very clear, invisible joints, little to no odor) of the high clarity. If you're that concerned with open time, get a lower gram high clarity(if they have it). That said, I've not had -any- issues with time, even closing guitar bodies, with the 192 HC.

[John E Giarrizzo]

Their web page says that they are both 192 gram strength, and I think that's the lowest they go. The Behlen stuff is supposedly 164. That's what I've been used to working with. Decisions decisions.

[Chuck Tweedy]

I also use the 192 M&H high clarity stuff.
It is great. Very strong, very clear, and it seems - to me - to have a very long open time.

[Waddy Thomson]

If you keep the temperature above 70* in your shop, it has pretty good open time. Warm the surfaces, and it's as much as you need for most gluing operations. 90 seconds is a long time if you are doing practiced routines.

[David Bingham]

John,
If it's not too long, could you please post the list of distributors?

[Waddy Thomson]

http://toolsforworkingwood.com

Hide Glue Page:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/stor ... -HIDEGL.XX

[John E Giarrizzo]

Thanks to all for the info.

David,

The list was sent as a .doc file. Because of formating, when I copy the text to the forum window, half is missing and the rest jumbled.

I can either email it as an attachment to you or you can get it directly from the company. RESELLER.doc info@milligan1868.com

[David King]

If you have a way to generate a PDF you could post that instead.

[Steve Woods]

Stewart-MacDonald lists liquid hide glue in bottles http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhe ... _Glue.html
Could this stuff possibly be any good. I want to do some occassional guitar repair without investing in a glue pot and buying granules in bulk?

[David King]

Steve, you can get a glue pot together for less than what Stewmac charges for a bottle of inferior glue (which will go bad in a year or less).
Do you have an old percolator coffee maker? That's what I use. You can also use a mini crock pot or any other cooking implement designed to hold things at a fixed temperature. You will need a thermometer to track temps and you will need to adjust holding temp with a hole in the lid of your glue pot. Before I got the free percolator I just warmed my glue in a double boiler for the occasional uses.