Multi-Scale with Strat type "tremolo" bridge?

[Ned Farnsworth]

I have a generally strat-styled guitar with a frozen truss rod (friend made it for me - did his best LOL). I have Lace Alumitone pickups in it, which I love, but the mass of the smallest string is just too small - can't balance with other strings.

Right now I'm only interested in the following solution. Because I have to pull the fingerboard anyway, I want to make a new one with graduating scales from treble to bass - I think here you call it multi-scale. I'm wondering what are some guidelines for how far I can spread the scale on strat-type guitar, considering the limited placement of the saddles. I would love to use the following strings at the listed pitches and tensions.

.012" f' 20.66lb 24.0"
.014 c' 16.06lb 24.3"
.016 g 18.19lb 24.6"
.026w d 19.34lb 24.9"
.036w A 20.90lb 25.2"
.046w E 19.18lb 25.5"

I used the String Tension calculator here ( http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html ) and assumed a spread of 24" to 25.5" scale. So the nut will spread out somewhere close to 1.5" across a neck that is 1.875" wide at the nut - about a 39º angle. I am trying to imagine what it would feel like to play an instrument with such an angled fret and I can't really vividly imagine it to say whether it would work or not.

Is this feasible? What problems have you run into assembling such an instrument? What are the experienced pitfalls? Are there general guidelines for multi-scale with a moving bridge?

Thanks for all help.

[Mark Swanson]

Are you expecting the multi-scale fingerboard setup to help you in making the high string more balanced? It won't do anything about that.

[Ned Farnsworth]

Won't the bigger string allowed with lower tension yield louder output? I thought that was part of the attraction?

How would e.g. a .012" string not cause more electrons to move than would a .010" string? When the scale length stays the same the larger string seems to balance better, but it wrecks the feel because then tension goes so high...

[David King]

I would start with the FretFind 2D app on line and print out, (from multi-page PDF), various string paths, nut angles etc and tape those to your present fingerboard to help you imagine how they will feel.
The trem will give you a lot of problems if it's of the knife-edge/Strat variety unless your bridge is at right angles to the neck. I imagine you knew that already. You could go with a linear trem like a Stetsbar or a rolling trem like a Wilkinson or a B5 Bigsby if you want the bridge to angle as well.

[Mark Swanson]

I didn't notice in your post that you listed a heavier string in the new plan. It may well make a difference, but it also might not, as it would still be the smallest string in the set. You'd have to try it and see!
I know you said you liked those pickups but it is possible that a different pickup may have better string balance as well.

[Ned Farnsworth]

Great idea - thanks!

I would start with the FretFind 2D app on line and print out, (from multi-page PDF), various string paths, nut angles etc and tape those to your present fingerboard to help you imagine how they will feel.

[Loren Schulte]

Do what David King suggests and pay particular attention to how the nut angle plays against the existing headstock profile. Depending on your current scale length, chances are the bass side of the angled nut could be floating above a scooped headstock profile (if it's a Fender-style neck). At any rate, this area will be a bigger challenge to make right IMHO. I'd just make a new neck!

[Jason Rodgers]

Consider a Novax retrofit neck. I suppose that takes all the fun out of luthier-izing your guitar, but consider the cost/benefit.

[David King]

What is the bridge string spacing? 2-1/16" or 2-7/32"

[Patrick Kirkham]

Not sure that such a radical "multi-scale" could be intonated with a strat bridge. Getting with fretfind for measurement is gonna be a good idea to see how much low E intonation that you're going to get out of that bridge. A measure from low E 12th fret to low E bridgepiece range-of-travel will be a pretty fair ballpark, but not the answer. Novax did the math already and have a good product, at least having a look at theirs should give you an idea of how much scale you can play with. I believe my multi is around the lengths you propose.

[Ned Farnsworth]

Very cool thanks for all info. Cool guitar, Patrick!

FWIW I would never buy anything from Novak - or take anything for free. Google Novak Fanned Frets Patent and you may feel the same way.

I decided to go ahead and lace up this project with a normal fretboard and save multiscale for a future project where I think through the whole design first. I have been looking at the designs here: http://strandbergguitars.com/ Also I may need a 7-string bass for an upcoming project, so that may be my first foray into multiscale.

I am also considering storing most of my instruments and going real minimal. The biggest productivity tool for musicians is woodshed time, and the less time I spend tinkering, the more shed time I will have. Unlike normal, non-guitar hobbies, lutherie seems to drag me away from music, diverting my energy instead of refreshing it. Muuust... puuut.... down... fiiiiile....

[Mark Swanson]

The biggest productivity tool for musicians is woodshed time, and the less time I spend tinkering, the more shed time I will have. Unlike normal, non-guitar hobbies, lutherie seems to drag me away from music,

I fight with that demon all the time. I make my income from the band I am in and the repairs and guitars I build. I often wish I could focus on just one but I can't, and one or the other always seems to be taking most of my time and the expense of the others! I don't know how some people seem to do it so well.

[Patrick Kirkham]

Ned, I'm with you on patents/copyright/rights trolls, but Novax only protects his own. Seems he has a different way of figuring multiscale math and calls his "Fanned Frets". We call ours multi-scale and either figure it ourselves or Fretfind 2D and that keeps everyone happy and employable. As long as you don't call what you're doing "fanned frets", you can just make as many as you want. After all the Opharion came first, I've been calling my instruments Opharions as well. Telelectropharion pictured above. I don't anticipate any legal challenges, to slap down on their butt, any time soon. N' if it did, they'll wish they didn't.

[Jason Rodgers]

If you're still thinking about a multi-scale instrument with a trem, check out Kahler's line of bridges. Cool stuff, in 6- to 10-string configurations.