re-occuring glue-up nightmare

[Charles Simons]

I'm building guitars that use cocobolo fretboards and I'm binding them with plastic ivroid binding (.040"). I keep notes on most stuff I do in my shop, but in this case, its not helping. No matter what kind of glue I use (yellow, white, fish, ca, model glue, the binding glue from LMI, others...) or how I clamp it (I've tried everything from 12 block clamps to only masking tape) - I end up regluing and then fixing spots for 3 to 5 days in a row before I can call it done.

WHat am I doing wrong?? The same thing happened this week with an ebony board. I'm sanding the edges with 100 grit and hitting the binding as well. I coat both sides with glue - what else can I do?? I think the next step is to try my nail gun!

[David King]

Have you tried a plastic glue that melts the iveroid like Duco cement?

[Mark Swanson]

You didn't say much about how you are treating the wood surface before you do the gluing. You should make a fresh surface, use a scraper to remove just the surface before applying any glue, sanding a bit would work too but scraping is best. Don't put anything on it- one myth that often causes trouble is that people think they need to wipe down the surface with a solvent first- this only hurts and doesn't help at all, so no wipe- just a freshly scraped surface.

[Charles Simons]

Hi, thanks for the replies... (hey Mark! - hope to see you at the next GAL)

I'm doing les paul style fret boards where I file the frets even with the edge of the board before binding. That makes scraping tough, but I hit it (along with the binding) with 100 grit (no solvent)

I've used duco on several occasions, usually with very 'mixed' results - it dries too fast for me to get it together. I nearly always get spots I have to go back and redo. Same is true for the LMI binding glue. Maybe I've got the wrong technique, but I'm trying to get both sides on in the same glue up - is that too much? When binding the body I find it a little easier as I can glue just ahead of where I'm taping

[Mario Proulx]

It has to be your technique, since all the glues that everyone else uses has failed for you...

Try this:

Do one side at a time. 100 grit is too coarse; just knock the shine off the ivoroid with 220(IE: just kiss it with the 220). DO NOT sand the fretboard's edge! Use a scraper or razor blade, and just give it a quick skim right before you begin to glue it up. Apply about an inch of thin CA to the end of the ivoroid, and tape it in place. Have the tape strips cut and stuck to the edge of your workbench so that they're ready. Then apply another inch of thin CA to the ivoroid while holding the fretboard upright so that the CA runs down to the already glued section. Tape it right away. Don't bother trying to spread it, or use accelerator, no nothing. It is thin, and it will spread itself nicely when you tape it. Do not apply CA to both surfaces.

Repeat until done. You'll find that by the time you've done one side and the end piece, you can begin to remove the tape from where you had started, such that you can do the second side right away. Better yet, cut your pieces of tape short enough that they won't get in the way of the second side's taping....

If the above doesn't work for you, take up knitting. You've been cursed by the glue gods and will never get anything to work.....

[Mark Swanson]

I like to use the CA gel sometimes. It is a bit cleaner. But the regular CA works fine and is clean too if you don't use too much.
As far as the Duco goes, some folks don't use it correctly. If you read the instructions you see that it tells you to apply one coat to wood, and let it dry- THEN apply a second layer when you glue up, and don't scrimp on it.

[Simon Magennis]

I have taken to lightly scraping critical parts with a razor blade just before I glue up too. Not sure how much of it is voodoo and how much is reality but I thik my bridges are glueing better as a result.

[Dennis Duross]

In order for me to be able to use CA on wood, I've found that I have to seal the wood first. I usually use shellac, but thin CA works too.

[David King]

CA has a tough time with some woods. Most or all spruces, redwood, pines etc are acidic which slows the curing way down. Cocobolo and spalted maple are basic which accelerates the cure to the point of making it set up instantaneously. I would pre-treat the former with spray accelerator and let that just dry before applying the CA to the untreated binding. Sealing these woods with shellac makes sense to me

[Mario Proulx]

I never do any of the above voodoo. Just hardware store CA, and tape.

But what do I know?

[Dennis Duross]

That's what I do too---hardware store CA (seal coat of shellac) and tape. Works like a charm.

I'm sure there's something I'm doing (wrong) that makes the shellac necessary, but I never had any luck with CA and wood until I started using shellac.

It seemed to me that the CA wicked into the unsealed wood, and I never got a bond until my 2nd or 3rd attempt (at which point the surfaces were sealed with CA).

So rather than mentally beat myself up 2 and 3 times every glue up for not being able to use a simple product as directed, I decided to add shellac to the process.

Now every glue up is a smashing success---AND I feel good about being ME again---I sleep better, my appetite's back, I make more eye contact.

So, win/win.

[Charles Simons]

Thanks All, I'm going to try the one side at a time, with shellac, method and see how it goes