Slow bench grinder OR diamond stone?

[Eric Knapp]

Squaring a blade doesn't happen often. I use the belt sander because it's easy and it's there. That's where I'll make the 25 degree angle as well if I'm already there. Just watch out for heat.

It doesn't but I'm in the period where I'm setting up and resurrecting my shop. I have to flatten all my chisels and plane blades all over again. They got damaged by moisture over time. I'm old too, and it is hurting my hands trying to do everything manually. I don't have a belt sander either. This is why I'm asking about a better grinding setup.

-Eric

[Bob Gramann]

Glue a piece of 120 grit paper to a piece of glass. It will take a bit longer than you want, but not forever. Being old beats most of the alternatives.

[Eric Knapp]

Glue a piece of 120 grit paper to a piece of glass. It will take a bit longer than you want, but not forever. Being old beats most of the alternatives.

That is exactly what I do now and it is killing my hands. This is one thing that is going to need some electricity behind it.

My dad just turned 100 years old and he taught me most of my woodworking knowledge. Indeed, being old can be a great thing.

-Eric

[Todd Stock]

Advice: Start with a coarse/extra-coarse diamond stone (DMT DuoSharp 10"...$125) - not as fast as a grinder and not my first choice for getting nicks out, but with a $10 side-clamping jig, reasonable effort gives good results. A 4000/8000 combo stone from Norton (about $86) completes the basic sharpening system. Total investment is $210-$225, but the diamond stone flattens the water stones, and you can go directly from the coarse diamond to the 8000 waterstone without issue for finish edge. Always an option to use a buddies grinder or belt sander with 80 fret belt when intensive work is needed.

Comparison:

- A grinder allows a hollow grind using a decent white aluminum oxide stone which saves time when honing, but you'll need a wheel dresser and possibly a decent tool stand (fab this - not hard) and you'll still need either stones or paper/film (Scary Sharp) to get to an edge.

- I used SS for close to a decade and it works well, although a little slow and fussy about cross-contamination of grits if you want a really good polished edge...a piece of 1/2" plate glass scrap is a pretty cheap way to get a flat surface to work on. Scary Sharp is hard to beat for low initial cost, but cost of abrasives and time spent working through grits adds up.

- If you can pop for $225 for the stones, then add a grinder when one shows up at a really good price, that diamond stone will handle most anything you can throw at it until your rich uncle Alvin kicks and leaves you his entire chain of big-box stores.

[Bob Gramann]

Are you using a honing guide? My dad turned 94 this year. I joke that I learned woodworking from him by watching carefully and doing exactly the opposite of what he did. His motto was "That's good enough." Riding in a car that he repaired could be very dangerous.

Anyway, I could get by with a #4 plane and a half-inch chisel for most of my cutting. I have much more, but all the rest is luxury. Save your hands and sharpen the rest later?

I don't use my grinder much at all, but the belt sander I use all the time. If I were buying just one, it would be the belt sander (in fact, my kids gave me the grinder).

[Eric Knapp]

Advice: Start with a coarse/extra-coarse diamond stone (DMT DuoSharp 10"...$125) - not as fast as a grinder and not my first choice for getting nicks out, but with a $10 side-clamping jig, reasonable effort gives good results. A 4000/8000 combo stone from Norton (about $86) completes the basic sharpening system. Total investment is $210-$225, but the diamond stone flattens the water stones, and you can go directly from the coarse diamond to the 8000 waterstone without issue for finish edge. Always an option to use a buddies grinder or belt sander with 80 fret belt when intensive work is needed.

Comparison:

- A grinder allows a hollow grind using a decent white aluminum oxide stone which saves time when honing, but you'll need a wheel dresser and possibly a decent tool stand (fab this - not hard) and you'll still need either stones or paper/film (Scary Sharp) to get to an edge.

- I used SS for close to a decade and it works well, although a little slow and fussy about cross-contamination of grits if you want a really good polished edge...a piece of 1/2" plate glass scrap is a pretty cheap way to get a flat surface to work on. Scary Sharp is hard to beat for low initial cost, but cost of abrasives and time spent working through grits adds up.

- If you can pop for $225 for the stones, then add a grinder when one shows up at a really good price, that diamond stone will handle most anything you can throw at it until your rich uncle Alvin kicks and leaves you his entire chain of big-box stores.

Thanks for chiming in, Todd. Your videos on sharpening on YT are what got me started on this thread. I already have a full set of Japanese water stones. I have Kings from 800 to gold. I flatten them on sandpaper on a sheet of 1/2" glass. I keep them very flat at all times. The only thing I'm missing is a fast grinding setup for restoring my damaged tools and for things like sharpening that Al Carruth scraper. I'm trying to decide on a slow grinder or a diamond stone. What would be your preference if you had to get something now? I'm also a long-term computer guy and I'm trying to minimize stress on my hands.

Thanks,

-Eric

[Eric Knapp]

Are you using a honing guide?

Yes, I am, I have a few different types.

My dad turned 94 this year. I joke that I learned woodworking from him by watching carefully and doing exactly the opposite of what he did. His motto was "That's good enough." Riding in a car that he repaired could be very dangerous.

Ha! My dad is/was a very good woodworker. I am more detailed and precise and he's proud of me for that. He was a sculpture more than a maker of wood things. He was an architect for a trade.

Anyway, I could get by with a #4 plane and a half-inch chisel for most of my cutting. I have much more, but all the rest is luxury. Save your hands and sharpen the rest later?

That's kind of what I'm doing now. I want to do more than make guitars and I want my full shop back. I love planes and good chisels and I want control of their edges.

I don't use my grinder much at all, but the belt sander I use all the time. If I were buying just one, it would be the belt sander (in fact, my kids gave me the grinder).

I seem to have less desire for a belt sander. Others, like David, think a grinder is important. Too many options!

-Eric

[Steve Sawyer]

Not to beat a dead horse, Eric, but the Worksharp with a coarse sanding disk will remove nicks and restore a bevel right quick. It's a motorized sandpaper-on-glass. I'd recommend at least putting it on your short list given your requirements.

[Eric Knapp]

Not to beat a dead horse, Eric, but the Worksharp with a coarse sanding disk will remove nicks and restore a bevel right quick. It's a motorized sandpaper-on-glass. I'd recommend at least putting it on your short list given your requirements.

Thanks, I am looking at that system. I'm leaning towards a slow grinder as it might serve more of my needs. I'm looking at more things though.

-Eric

[Steve Sawyer]

I'm leaning towards a slow grinder as it might serve more of my needs.

Slow grinders are nice...

[Todd Stock]

If you don't mind the time spent, the King stuff is a good, inexpensive option. Low speed grinder with a good pink wheel and a wide diamond dresser sounds like a good option. The Woodcraft Rikon low speed 8" is not bad - I've had the same grinder (generic badging) for a decade and it runs just fine...used it for grinding for a year or so, but doing duty as the fret polishing machine these days. The trick with Woodcraft Chinese sourced stuff is to return if not exactly right...should run cool and no heat buildup in the motor even under moderate load...heat unloaded is really bad.

Worksharp as grinder might work well for you if a flat bevel is tolerable. use the Kings to hone and you'll have a system that should work. I think an 8" low speed grinder is more likely to be repurposed when you move onto whatever your end-state sharpening system is, but it is a fast option for getting a banged-up bevel sweetened up.

[Eric Knapp]

Thanks for all the input. This issue was very much alive to in my shop today. I got a new handplane and I nicked the blade within an hour. I have no idea how, this is the worst blade nick I've ever managed to accomplish. Aside from being mad and really embarrassed, I'm now really sore. It's a 3/16" A2 blade and I've been working away with sandpaper on glass for over two hours and I'm only about 3/4 of the way. I had to quit before my arms fell off. Solving this has got to be my next priority, I'm losing too much time hand-grinding steel. I was about to start doing some practice thickness planing and all I'm going to accomplish is gray hands and a sore body. Grump...

-Eric

[David King]

I decided pretty early on not to use the DMT stuff to flatten other stuff. It seemed like a good idea but it wears out the diamonds in no time.

Meanwhile sorry about the nick, that's a lousy way to spend the day.

[Bob Howell]

You can think of the grinding wheel as used for shaping the blade at 25% usually.

I have a very course wheel for this, 54 grit maybe Norton 1" blue wheel, whatever is stock. It varies. Not much danger of burning at this stage.

Then you can go to 120 grit blue wheel. This is the stage where you can burn it. But your edge is shaped so many then go to water stones or sand paper.
Then sharpen at a 30% angle to get a micro bevel on the very tip say 1-2 mm.

Carvers then go to the strop coated with various polishing compounds, but I am not sold on that yet.

But shape, then sharpen just the tip. Breaking it up helped me work out the process.

[Barry Daniels]

I use green polishing compound on a piece of MDF to strop my chisels after each use. Takes 30 seconds and it keeps them very sharp for much longer. This has become one of the most useful practices in my shop.

[Steve Sawyer]

A2 holds an edge well, but it's a b**ch to sharpen by hand as you're discovering. I stuck with the O1 blades until I started using the Worksharp. Not too much of an issue when just touching up the honed edge, but taking out a nick or establishing a bevel really makes you want to go with a machine of some kind...

[Eric Knapp]

A2 holds an edge well, but it's a b**ch to sharpen by hand as you're discovering. I stuck with the O1 blades until I started using the Worksharp. Not too much of an issue when just touching up the honed edge, but taking out a nick or establishing a bevel really makes you want to go with a machine of some kind...

I'm seeing that. This is my first A2 blade and it is really hard. What are the trade offs between the steels? Does an A2 still get as sharp IRL? Ron Hock's site says O1 blades will get sharper but the edge doesn't last as long. He seems to know a thing or two about steel.

-Eric

[Steve Sawyer]

I'm seeing that. This is my first A2 blade and it is really hard. What are the trade offs between the steels? Does an A2 still get as sharp IRL? Ron Hock's site says O1 blades will get sharper but the edge doesn't last as long. He seems to know a thing or two about steel.

That's the conventional wisdom, and seems to be the case in my experience. I have a couple of old high-carbon steel kitchen knives that are at the other end of the spectrum from A2 - really easy to sharpen and can REALLY be made scary sharp - slice you right to the bone if you're not paying attention - it dulls almost immediately so you have to use your steel after every use. O1 is a little harder to sharpen, doesn't get as sharp but holds it's edge better than plain carbon steel. A2 is hardest to sharpen, doesn't sharpen to as fine an edge, but you can chisel or plane a LONG time before having to touch it up.

I haven't tried that new PM-V11 tool steel that Lee Valley has been offering. Very $pendy but looks interesting. They claim that it's no harder to sharpen than A2 but is more durable.

[Todd Stock]

There are very few times where the sharpness advantage that 0-1 has is meaningful, because that advantage is gone in a few strokes in the woods we use, and with diamond and modern Norton & Sharpton stones, there's no real difference to get a fresh edge on the tool. I have enough planes that have both 01 and A2 blades that I have gravitated away from the 01 stuff in favor of more edge durability. Time spent sharpening is time not spent on revenue-producing activity.

[Eric Knapp]

There are very few times where the sharpness advantage that 0-1 has is meaningful, because that advantage is gone in a few strokes in the woods we use, and with diamond and modern Norton & Sharpton stones, there's no real difference to get a fresh edge on the tool. I have enough planes that have both 01 and A2 blades that I have gravitated away from the 01 stuff in favor of more edge durability.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. The only hard steel I've used before are in Japanese chisels with laminated Aogami Hagane steel at c65. They are also harder to sharpen but last far longer. How does the Japanese steel compare to A2? (I'm getting a modern woodworker's education here.)

Time spent sharpening is time not spent on revenue-producing activity.

Now that's a quotable statement.

-Eric