MIMF

Right you are Bill. Oye!, my language skills
I once lost in Scrabble to Koko!

I've been waiting for Mr. Tweedy to warn us that wooden planes are susceptible to attach by large insect larvae. I think he has pictures.

Chuck Tweedy wrote:. . . I once lost in Scrabble to Koko!

Now that's funny!

It's a bit late in the year for larvae damage. Those things emerge in early April. That was classic!

Eric, post away. It is nice to see more activity here. Had it not been for this place, this hobby would never have stuck with me. I have learned a ton here. I hope this forum goes on for a long, long time.

" It seems there aren't many other wooden plane fans here. How about Japanese planes?

I like wood bodied planes, even own a few, but no Japanese planes. Well tuned and waxed, wood bodies work well.

Ha ha! Funny, Chuck!

Hmm, I was about to point out to some senescent members that what is 'old' to them might be 'new' to others.

back on subject...

One of my favorite planes is both wood and Japanese (tho that may be a redundant statement).
It is a uniquely wonderful at shaping braces.

Then again, this plane is also uniquely capable at bracework. But it is steel and American.

I don't happen to own any wooden planes but not because I don't like them. I actually just accidentally won the mujingfang "rosewood" plough plane but have not set it up or used it yet. I got it for the sole (pun intended) purpose of plowing truss rod channels because I an trying to use the table saw less.

Speaking of brace carving planes. . . I was thinking about getting an Ibex violin plane for brace carving but am not sure what size would work best. I'd like one that would work for braces but also be useful if I decide to try my hand at archtop Mandos some day.

I have a couple of those small violin planes that I have used to carve a mandolin top and back and a couple of not quite as small finger planes that I use occasionally where they are just right for something. Every now and then I use them for brace carving, but mostly I use a very sharp half-inch chisel with the bevel down when I carve braces. The chisel is fast and controllable. I can quickly shave a brace to where I want it to be.

I mostly use wooden planes. The Emmerich ones are good I think, but I make my own. There is a book by David Finck called Making and Mastering Wood Planes that gives good directions for how to do it. Then you can choose size, blade type, bed angle etc. It's not a huge project to make one - takes me less than a day and I'm slow. I guess maybe you could call making planes yak shaving, but I don't think of it that way. I love building instruments, but really any shop time is good time, and any wood project is a chance to improve my limited woodworking skills. I find that as well as being useful, they're really fun when they're tuned up and sharp. That's true of metal ones and home made ones both. And when they are working they do leave the a lovely surface that doesn't need sanding.

I am turning into a plane collector. My budget is always low. My best finds so far have been a pair of Rali planes that I found in 2 separate shops in Hartville Ohio. One is a standard jack/bench plane that I found in the clearance section at Hartville True value. The other is a Block plane that I found at the Hartville tool exchange. Both of thos stores are worth the trip into town if you are a woodworker. The planes use replaceable small blades and are the most easily adjusted planes I have ever used. They cut hardwood like butter. Or more like the ones you see during the plane sharpening demonstration at woodcraft. My other planes, grizzly, Stanley, shop fox, khunz, and others all have their special uses, but the Rali's are the first ones I grab on most jobs.

Well, you guys got this noob/lurker to come crawling out into the light!

I've been building furniture for about 20 years, and only recently got the yen to build guitars, so I have a pretty healthy set of hand tools including planes and spoke shaves. My best planes are the ones from Veritas (a low-angle block, a skew block, and a medium shoulder) Lie-Nielsen (a bevel-up jack) and the one's I built myself as suggested by Jim Hepler. Wood planes are really easy to make, and if you can get some Lignum Vitae to laminate on the bottom as a sole, they're outstanding. David Finck's book really tells you all you need to know about the process.

That said, I have some vintage garage-sale Stanley's that aren't good for highly figured woods, but once tuned up have been great tools.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is scraper planes. They're hard to find, but are great for working figured woods and I would think should be a valuable addition to any luthier's arsenal. I don't think that he's making them any more, but a fellow named Paul Hamler used to make these super solid cast-brass inserts that would convert a wide-blade Stanley or equivalent to a scraper plane. I don't think he's making them any more, but I was fortunate enough to grab one when he ran a batch, and have two vintage bodies - a 4 1/2 and a 7 1/2 Stanley - that I've dedicated to use with this insert. If interested, wouldn't hurt to contact Paul to see if he has plans to run another batch of these anytime soon - http://hamlertools.blogspot.com/

In the pic below I'm using my Veritas low-angle block with a high-angle blade and the optional knob & handle that makes it the equivalent of a #3 smoother, and the Stanley 4 1/2 with the Hamler scraper insert to work the joint on some quarter-sawn white oak for a coffee table. To get the figure to match right the grain had to run in opposite directions on either side of the joint, hence the high probability of getting tear-out. These two planes made the job do-able.

someday I'll pick up a plane or 10.... I haven't really used any of them. My dad had one when I was a kid but it was not kept up at all

You think this forum is old? I recently started to frequent a Jazz guitar players forum. I think the official motto there is: "You kids get off my lawn!"

I picked up one of those inserts but couldn't get it to work well. Any tricks to share?

Barry Daniels wrote:I picked up one of those inserts but couldn't get it to work well. Any tricks to share?

No tricks, really. It's a scraper, so if you can sharpen a scraper, you're 90% there.

The other variable is the angle. To start I'll tighten the blade at about 80* with the sole and scraper edge resting on top of the workbench, then I'll take a few strokes while rolling the angle adjustment wheel until I'm getting good shavings. If the scraper has a good hook, it's just trial-an-error with that angle; eliminate chatter and try to get shavings rather than dust. The hardness of the wood, interlocking of the grain and angle of the grain to the surface will affect the angle required, but it's not as fussy as a regular plane.

Eric, you're right about this being a fantastic resource. I discovered MIMF around 2002 when I first began to seriously contemplate building instruments. I came at it with nothing. No luthery schools in my area or my budget for that matter. I have to say I have learned more here than anywhere else in print - both the web and old fashioned paper. I have a lot of respect for the "old timers" here. Even with everything there is on Youtube, this forum is the best place to get a serious answer to your luthery questions; better than Google most of the time, albeit a little slower.
The rules have thankfully eased up a bit since Charlie took over so you don't have to worry as much about referring to a list of by-laws before posting a link to something, but the tight rules over the years have helped keep the riff raff out.
Long live the MIMF!

Ken,

Here's my personal take on planes:
1. I started on the Grizzly plane set.
While other people have had good results after fettling it, changing the blade, lapping the sole, etc--I hated it. My block plane sorta worked after dropping in the hock iron, but the smoother was a total piece of crap (stronger words come to mind). It was so warped that I couldn't get it straight after (3) 2 hour sessions on sandpaper attached to plate glass.

2. My first good plane was a Lee Valley LA Jack.
This was a revelation. It taught me what a good plane could do--thickness, joint, smooth, finish with minimal sawdust--no fuss--dead nuts accuracy--everything milled, set screws for the blade. This plane is that standard that I hold myself to in my building and my dentistry.
I bought it as a "factory second" and it is one of the best planes for lutherie (and also nicer/heavier than the Lie Nielson version).

3. My second, third, etc good planes were LV
Apron block plane (an uglier, but better blade version of LN 102). Small Plow plane (no real substitute that I know of). Router plane (works, but there's a significantly better one being made by Walker Moore tools).

4. After learning what a good plane could do, I got a Japanese plane.
These are very high maintanence, very pleasurable beasts. Chuck Tweedy (who has incredible taste as always) probably has the first one that I'd recommend getting. These planes can warp, need a good hit to adjust, and have blades that can get incredibly sharp.
This is almost a sensual experience, when set up right (will take time to set up right).

5. After the Japanese planes, I got a Mujingfang
The Mujingfangs are sleepers--cheap, hold a working edge incredibly long, work well, and (imo) look nice. These would be great for thicknessing mahogany or any other high silicate wood.


Anyways, on to advice:
1.) If you can afford it, get a LV low angle jack. Ask for a factory second or wait until the first minutes of cyber monday.
2. After you know how a plane should perform, try getting a few older ones to rehab/use.
The older Ulmias are really nice. The Japanese ones are hit or miss (many are severely worn out). The old Stanley/Miller Falls/etc are good users.
3. If you really get into it, try making one.


Further resources to look into: Derek Cohen's website (the router plane plan is a good one), Neanderthall Creek, David Weaver on youtube.

Warning-- this stuff is addictive.

The primary advantage other than the fit and finish would be re-sale value. If you do much shopping for used tools you'll see real quick that the LV and LN planes hold about 80-90% of their purchase price if kept in very good shape. You either pay on the front end or the tail end but you pay either way. I have been fortunate to purchase a few LN and LV planes barely used for a slight discount from new. Whatever price difference over the Chinese/South Asian made planes was soon forgotten.