Methods of thicknessing soundboard and online tutorials

[Peter Wilcox]

If you have a router you can easily make a sled that rides over the workpiece to plane it. It should work for thin stock too if you hold it firmly with double sided tape on a flat surface.

[Joel Nowland]

Paul

Gaining skills with hand planes and hand tools is a good way to go and I highly recommend it.

There is another option. You can find a cabinet shop with a wide belt sander (most have them) and pay them to sand your top, back & sides, fingerboard and head plate to just a bit over final assembly thicknesses. Just make sure they sand at a high feed rate and with platen removed using the drum only. The platen builds up too much heat.

I began using hand tools to thickness the plates and then had the parts wide belt sanded as I started building more and more guitars until I bought my thickness sander.

Joel

[Ryan Mazzocco]

Yeesh, for a cheap alternative, I used my hand-held belt sander and a random orbital sander until I built my drum sander. Worked fine, but needed a lot of care to avoid gouging a hole thru the timbers....ask me how I know...

How do you know?

[Alan Carruth]

I've used a Wagner Safety Planer for about forty years. When I heard they had stopped production I got a spare set of cutters ASAP: I don't know how I'd make guitars without it. Like Trevor, I don't have room for a drum sander, and, until recently, didn't have a dust collector (which is still not totally set up...).

I do use my hand planes a lot, including as a follow-on to the Wagner. I'll go a few tenths of a mm on the thick side, clean up with the hand plane on a really light cut, and finish up with a scraper. I have had students who preferred to do all their top thicknessing with a hand plane: it's not so hard to do once you know how, and some folks just don't like the Wagner. OTOH, recalcitrant hardwoods, such as Osage Orange or Pernambuco, can be a real challenge with a hand plane.

[Nick Middleton]

I also use the Wagner Safe-T-Planer to get my stock to rough-thickness. I then clean up the machine-marks and final-thickness with a hand-plane or scrapper.

[paul berry]

thanks for the further replies

forums are an invaluable place to gain knowledge

I have been reading some woodworking books and guitar making books over the past week and I now understand why buying wood from a luthier supplier is an easier and quicker option for me rather than continued reading until my knowledge is enough to choose suitable wood.

Looks like some planes are the best way to go for my first guitar

During the past two/three weeks I have turned my study/music room into a workshop. I now have a luthier advised sized workbench, large tool board and three of my old guitars on the wall for decoration.

so in this order I will now buy...

Bookmatched soundboard wood
hide glue
long clamps
plane/s (#4 smoothing plane I think, hock, high quality second hand)
bracing wood

I should be then ready to start working on the soundboard!

[Chuck Tweedy]

Sounds like you are on the right track to me. Keep us informed Paul.

[Jason Rodgers]

In your list of steps, you skipped an important one: jointing the plates. A good hand plane is important here, too. A longer plane, like maybe a #5, is good when you're first attempting this joint, but with practice you can do it with a low angle block plane. There is plenty of info in the library on shooting boards, plane technique, candling the joint, and even gluing techniques that don't require clamps.

[paul berry]

In your list of steps, you skipped an important one: jointing the plates. A good hand plane is important here, too. A longer plane, like maybe a #5, is good when you're first attempting this joint, but with practice you can do it with a low angle block plane. There is plenty of info in the library on shooting boards, plane technique, candling the joint, and even gluing techniques that don't require clamps.

thanks jason

i plan on buying a no.5 and a no.7 now

Will I be ok if both of them are jack planes?

[Clay Schaeffer]

Hi Paul,
Many plane makers used a numbering system to indicate the relative length of the sole of the plane, Stanley's 1 through 8 for "bench" planes being the most common. Planes are also called according to their use. Nos. 1 thru 4 are usually called smoothing planes, No. 5 a "jack" (jack of all trades) plane, No. 6 a "fore" plane and nos. 7 and 8 are jointer planes.
Personally I like a no. 4 for most guitar work, but a no. 5 is also good. For guitarmaking the no. 7 is not as handy as you might think.
A small block plane is also very handy for guitar work.

[Waddy Thomson]

I have an old Bailey 4 1/2 that I really love. Wider than a 4 and just a bit longer.

[paul berry]

thanks waddy and clay

looks like a smaller plane is a good idea then

that's handy as they seem more common when looking for second hand planes

just need to make sure I pick a good second hand one now, i have noticed some sell for quite a lot while others which also seem like the higher quality ones do not.

I have ordered sitka spruce AA from david dyke in the UK for the sound board, along with some martin d28 plans & rabbit skin glue. I would like to make a copy of david matthews' martin signature guitar, this has a different spruce, engelmann, but that's not available to me at the moment

[Michael Lewis]

Paul, pay more attention to the quality of the wood and less to the species. By quality I am referring to the internal damping, stiffness, and weight. The suppliers of tone woods grade their wood by cosmetic qualities, not structural qualities.

[paul berry]

Paul, pay more attention to the quality of the wood and less to the species. By quality I am referring to the internal damping, stiffness, and weight. The suppliers of tone woods grade their wood by cosmetic qualities, not structural qualities.

I see, thank you michael

I used this website http://www.timbretone.com/GradingSpruce.html for guidance while deciding which grade to buy. It seemed that the grading was a mix of both cosmetics and structural quality.

I am mail ordering as there are no tonewood suppliers close to me, although I could travel there if it was important to do so.

I have not paid for the wood yet, so I still have time to change the order if need be, do you think it's not worth buying the high grade? they sell grades A and B too

There is a timber merchant not far away from me that have western red cedar in stock and I can have a look around myself, this is another option

[Michael Lewis]

If you are buying only one or two sets I suggest grade A and mail order, but if you plan to buy ten or more sets make an appointment to go to the facility and go through the lower grade sets and pick what seems good to you. Often sets that will please you fall in a lower classification by the grader's standards. I have had good luck ordering by phone as long as the seller will allow you to return the wood if you don't like it. I think I have returned two sets in more than thirty years.

Don't bother with the high grade wood until you have great 'chops' and can take advantage of it's 'superior' qualities. Your workmanship will have more bearing on how the instrument looks than the grade of the wood.

[Adam Savage]

Just a thought before you go out and purchase some planes. Try and find someone local to you (whereabouts are you, by the way?) and try out some different planes. For instance, I have fairly big hands, and I find that a number 4 is a bit cramped. I prefer a 5 1/2, but also have 6's and 7's which get a lot of use - especially when shooting the edges of plates. I find the extra heft of a larger plane useful, but that is personal preference, plenty of folk use wooden planes to an exceptional standard that have very little heft compared to steel bodied planes. Whilst a block plane will be invaluable for doing any woodwork, including luthiery, due to its shortness I would caution against its use for preparing edges to be joined, as it would be quite easy to (especially for a beginner) introduce undulations that would adversely affect the glue join.
As for sourcing timber, I don't think you will go far wrong with David Dyke. From what I understand, he has a very good reputation here in the UK for his timber.
The advice to examine timber to assess its' overall qualities prior to purchasing is sound, but rather difficult unless you have experience, which you won't if you are just starting out. The easiest way to become proficient is to purchase from a trusted supplier and examine in detail throughout the build process. Flex, tap, twist, bend, feel the timber in your hands, make notes as you do this, mentally or on paper, but have a definite process and stick to it.
I'm only on my first acoustic build, but have acquired a fair bit of wood and am very slowly learning what wood does, how it feels and how different pieces compare. But it will be a while yet before I get to hear what it sounds like in a finished instrument...

Either way, good luck,
Adam

[Miguel Bernardo]

I find that Cumpiano & Natelson´s method (going first with a toothed blade - i use an old and refurbished 4 1/2 -, plane in one direction, rotate 90 º, plane again, keep rotating and planing until all the surface is "marked" with the toothed pattern and then planing with the grain with a finely set number 5, then with a number 4 until the marks disappear) gives good results if:

- you have finely set planes with a sharp blades (well, i know it´s obvious but still...)
- pay attention to grain runout
- have lots of patience and take only very thin shavings each time and resist the temptation to tell the plane where to do its work

Besides Hock blades, you could also get some nice Japanese blades for your stanley-pattern planes. Here in europe they end-up cheaper than Hocks, but probably not in the US.
FWIW if i could have only two planes, it would be a Jack and a low angle block - but i´m happy i can use more.

Good luck,
Miguel.

[Miguel Bernardo]

Oh, and if you´re in the UK, Timberline is also a fine source for guitar wood.

[paul berry]

Just a thought before you go out and purchase some planes. Try and find someone local to you (whereabouts are you, by the way?) and try out some different planes. For instance, I have fairly big hands, and I find that a number 4 is a bit cramped. I prefer a 5 1/2, but also have 6's and 7's which get a lot of use - especially when shooting the edges of plates. I find the extra heft of a larger plane useful, but that is personal preference, plenty of folk use wooden planes to an exceptional standard that have very little heft compared to steel bodied planes. Whilst a block plane will be invaluable for doing any woodwork, including luthiery, due to its shortness I would caution against its use for preparing edges to be joined, as it would be quite easy to (especially for a beginner) introduce undulations that would adversely affect the glue join.
As for sourcing timber, I don't think you will go far wrong with David Dyke. From what I understand, he has a very good reputation here in the UK for his timber.
The advice to examine timber to assess its' overall qualities prior to purchasing is sound, but rather difficult unless you have experience, which you won't if you are just starting out. The easiest way to become proficient is to purchase from a trusted supplier and examine in detail throughout the build process. Flex, tap, twist, bend, feel the timber in your hands, make notes as you do this, mentally or on paper, but have a definite process and stick to it.
I'm only on my first acoustic build, but have acquired a fair bit of wood and am very slowly learning what wood does, how it feels and how different pieces compare. But it will be a while yet before I get to hear what it sounds like in a finished instrument...

Either way, good luck,
Adam

thanks for that

Being 6'3" I have larger than average hands too, maybe a little larger than a 4 would be good for me too. Are you about my height?

paul

[paul berry]

I just ordered an 'early' record 4 1/2 plane

It looks good but does not have a decal on the handle like some good old records do, other than that it looks identical to a picture of a high quality record I found. I liked the condition it is in, many planes on ebay don't take pictures of all the screws so I didn't want to risk buying one with screws so rusted they were not functional. I payed quite a high price I think.

Do you guys think it's good?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EARLY-RECORD- ... 7675.l2557

I have ordered a copy of the versa parrot vice, ice bear japanese stones, and I have made a shooting board ready for when everything arrives in the post. Cumpiano's book arrivied yesterday too