the need to pore fill...

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Clay Schaeffer
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: the need to pore fill...

Post by Clay Schaeffer »

I find it interesting that one of the most sought after "secrets" of lutherie is the varnish the Cremona makers used. Sometimes it seems we value the finish above all else.
I think the more we build, the more we want to master the finishing process.
There are buyers who will buy a satin finished guitar, otherwise you wouldn't see them in the stores. That they are generally at a lower price point reflects the fact that it is an easier finish to do.
Alan Carruth
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: the need to pore fill...

Post by Alan Carruth »

I think part of the attraction of the Strad varnish is simply that we don't (and probably can't at this point) know what it is or how it was applied. This makes it a good candidate for being 'the secret': since we don't belieive we can duplicate his results there has to have been something he did that we don't, and that's an obvious target. These days the discussion has mostly shifted to the 'ground coat' (although there are those who will chew you out if you cal it that) under the varnish proper. It's actually about all that's left on most of the old Cremonese instruments, and it's practically bullet proof.

It's certainly true that the 'industry standard' guitar finish these days is perfectly level and slick. It's pretty easy to get that if you're not too worried about a lot of build-up, and customers love the look. The problem is getting that look, or 'close enough', without a lot of build-up. It's particularly an issue if you don't, or can't, go with a spray finish. Varnish can continue to shrink for a good part of a year after you apply it, and the finish that was level a few months ago can be pretty porous now.

It's been said that when there are a lot of ways to do something, it's a sign that either everything works, or that nothing works. I think the wide variety of finishes used on guitars points to the latter. ;)
Gordon Bellerose
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 11:47 pm
Location: Edmonton AB. Canada

Re: the need to pore fill...

Post by Gordon Bellerose »

One of the things that may have changed in the past century is the vast array of woods being used in lutherie.
A lot of the different kinds of wood needs something particular done in the finishing stage to get optimum results.
That, and the types of finish that are now available, have also changed wood finishing.

In the past there were a few compounds used in wood finishing. Shellac, varnish, oil, and variations of those, were about it.
Now with environmental considerations changing the way we work and much less availability of VOC based finishes, waterbased finishes have been introduced, and are my preferred method of finishing.
Some of the old tried and true methods don't produce the result we strive for using different products, so we have a new learning curve thrown at us.
I need your help. I can't possibly make all the mistakes myself!
Craig Bumgarner
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:03 pm
Location: Drayden, Maryland

Re: the need to pore fill...

Post by Craig Bumgarner »

Alan Carruth wrote: It's been said that when there are a lot of ways to do something, it's a sign that either everything works, or that nothing works. I think the wide variety of finishes used on guitars points to the latter. ;)
How true! Guitar finish may be like acoustic guitar amplification. You would think after all these years, we would have gotten both right, but alas, we still seem a long way away.

For a gloss finish, I am increasingly happy with polished Z-Spar's Captain's varnish over shellac on the top and epoxy fill on the back, sides and neck. Here is a pic of my more recent that shows off the gloss & clarity. Adds a little amber color, but not much.
Varnish pic.jpg
Gilbert Fredrickson
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:07 pm

Re: the need to pore fill...

Post by Gilbert Fredrickson »

I'm all about the "Strad varnish" approach to finishing. Open pore finishing has it's place in the guitar world. The unfilled wood is an asthetic element that should fit the visual character of the instrument. I've yet to (purposely) leave pores unfilled. I find myself beginning to favor Maple and Pau Ferro.
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