First time build

[Ross Burkin]

Hi guys and girls,

I'm just collecting the components for my first guitar build. I am a furniture making student and have access to a machine shop, including CNC facilities. I feel I have the wood working skills required.

I have chosen to buy a neck. I don't have the time to build it and it adds a whole new level of complexity to the build. I have picked up an unfinnished, one piece mahogany neck off ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Unf ... 1094wt_905

It hasn't arrived yet so I can not comment its quality but for a first time build I'm happy either way, unless its truly dreadful.

I want to build a Les Paul/ES335 hybrid. I used to have a MIJ Tokai Les Paul and I loved playing it. It was my favourite guitar but it was heavy when playing it for more than about 30 mins standing up. I have played semi solid body guitars and liked them. I like the look of a double cut (I have a Gordon Smith Gypsy 2) so all these factors (and more) have lead me to the following conclusion.

I want to build a Gibson style guitar, but I don't want it to just be a copy, otherwise I'll just pick up a second hand Tokai again. I want it to be unique.

Body

Think ES335 shape on a diet. They always feel and look like too much guitar. I'm thinking an oversized double cut Les Paul. Solid core flanked with hollow cavities. Sapele with a Maple or Ash top.

Sapele as mahogany is harder to get hold of and is way more expensive, and the internet (in its infinite wisdom) seems to think it's fairly similar to mahogany with regards to tone etc. I have used it before and understand that it has interlocking grain, but I like the stripes! Can you convince me otherwise?

Ash vs Maple. Maple is traditionally used on LPs. It is a stable and hard wearing and is the 'traditional' choice on a gibbo. Takes finishes better than Ash. Ash is less stable but is supposedly brighter sounding and more resonant than Maple (which is heavier and denser than Ash). Just a different choice.Any comments?

The plan is to affix a jig to the CNC bed and rout the wiring channels and hollow body cavities out of the Sapele blank. Then remove and glue top on and return to jig when cured. Then have the outline, hardware, neck pocket, f holes and step profiling to top routed out for further profiling and sanding later.

Simple enough in principle. However, I need some more info. The bridge on a LP is angled so it isn't exactly 24-3/4' from the nut to compensate for the action/string gauge stretch/intonation thing. Can anyone supply with drawings with these dimensions on? I'm going to use a tonepros tune-o-matic style bridge.

The trickiest part is the neck attachment. The neck I have bought is a bolt on, 'flat' fender style with a Gibson scale length, neck and fretboard profiling. In order to achieve the Gibson 4* neck pitch I have several options.

1) Pitch the body up to the required angle and use a hand held router with a guide bush on a flat jig to skim the neck pocket to the correct angle.

2) Similar idea but use an over head router and centre pin guide.

3) Surgery on the neck. Pitch from the heel towards the nut, clamp and rout which will create a step that will need pairing down by hand to fit to the body neatly.

Thoughts or any other ideas on how to achieve the neck angle?

As it is not a real tenon in the sense that its not a massive chunk like Gibson use, I'm guessing I'll have to bolt it on anyway. Is there any benefit to gluing as well? Do you think I could just glue it? I intend to have it as 'set in' as is possible.


Finishing

Add matching veneer to headstock and bleach both headstock and body top bone white. Then a few coats of 90% sheen pre-cat lacquer (free at college) and done. Going to have gold hardware.

Electronics

Humbucker in the neck and bridge. Seymour Duncan Vintage blues humbucker set. I'm a rock, blues player who dabbles with cleaner jazz sounds. These are good value and sound like they'll do the job nicely.

Thanks in advance for your time and any input you may have.

Ross

[Charlie Schultz]

Hi Ross,
Please note we require the use of real first & last names on this board. Please PM me or one of the mods with your correct name and we'll fix up your registration. Thanks!

[Mattia Valente]

1. Sapele makes a fantastic neck. Sometimes/often heavier than 'true' mahoganies, and a little less easy to carve. I've used Sipo, Sapele and Khaya 'african mahoganies' for both bodies and necks without problems or hesitation. I like honduran better in terms of carving, but only slightly, and it's twice as expensive without really significant tonal benefits.

2. Use maple for the top, if only because it's so, so, so much easier to finish. It can be plenty resonant. Swamp ash is a pain to pore fill, hard ash only slightly less so, and I prefer maple's finer grain for carving and working.

3. Check stewmac.com/fretcalc, which will provide you with the positions to drill the mounting posts for most of the common bridges. TonePros ToMs are drop-in replacement units, so use figures for tunomatic bridges for that.

4. My vote for neck angling goes to simply making a neck pocket jig and angling the pocket. Whether you do this by planing the angle on the the face of the guitar, using a Myka-style neck pocket jig (Google 'David Myka Neck Pocket Jig' or similar) or some other arrangement is up to you.

5. If you glue, just glue. If you bolt, bolt. Don't do both. Unnecessary overkill, and either should be more than enough to hold the neck in place. Without a picture I can't really judge whether gluing is the best option (aesthetically more than structurally).

[Ben Fleenor]

I like Sapele, but have only used it a little. The interlocked grain could definitely give you trouble when routing, but if you work it out with climbing cuts and shallow passes if should do fine. It has much smaller pores than mahogany so you can finish it without a specific pore-filling step. Maple has the same advantage over ash when finishing.

The Stew Mac fret calculator that Mattia mentioned will set you up right. Just double check the scale length on the neck when you get it before you mark anything out.

As for the neck pocket, the best one will have the closest fit, regardless of how you fasten it in. Get the tenon to fit tight enough that you can hold the body up with just the neck, but not so tight that you can't press it in and pull it out by hand.
I'd suggest laying everything out, once you receive your parts, to determine the neck angle. Since you're not copying an existing guitar, 4 degrees may not be the best angle. You'll want to work it out so the bridge is well within it's adjustable up and down boundaries.

[Ross Burkin]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Does the angle of the guitar neck affect the way the guitar plays? I was thinking about this today and wondered if the only reason why LPs have the neck and is just to accommodate the tuneomatic bridge?

If it has no real affect then I'll just use a different bridge, scrap the neck angle and keep it as simple as possible.

[Greg Robinson]

Hi Ross,

There are two main "camps" of electric guitar bridges; Fender style, and Gibson style.

When Gibson started making electric guitars, they already had a long history of making traditional acoustic steel string instruments, which invariably have a neck angle. When they developed and released their first electric guitar, the Les Paul, they emphasized the "traditional" construction techniques and function of the instrument. This included an angled neck, which required a tall bridge. They designed the Tune-O-Matic bridge to suit this requirement. Tune-O-Matic bridges are usually around 3/4" tall.

When Fender entered the market, they were a new player, and offered reasonably priced instruments. To achieve this, they used a simple design and relied upon modern mass manufacturing techniques. This meant no neck angle, and the bridge that they designed was shorter, around 1/2".

Now of course, you can adjust the ranges of heights available from these two styles of bridges. Fender style bridges can be adjusted quite high, and some are available with thicker than normal baseplates to allow higher action and work with angled necks, and Gibson style Tune-O-Matics can be recessed into the top to work with non-angled necks. Also, how high the fretboard sits above the top where it meets the body plays into this relationship too.

So yes, the two different "styles" of electric bridges do feel different to play, and probably the biggest difference in feel between the two is due to the neck angle. I don't think you can really make any generalizations about differences in "tone" between the two, as a number of factors need to be changed to accommodate either solution.
Personally, I find guitars with angled necks to be more comfortable to play, my fretting hand and arm are in a more natural and relaxed position. However, I generally loathe Tune-O-Matic style bridges, and also appreciate the added functionality of Fender style bridges, but that is personal preference.

So what I would recommend is that you go out to your local music store and have a play on a few different examples of each style, and see what feels better to you.