12 fret 000 / 14 fret body shape

[Andy Bounsall]

I’m going to be doing my take on a 12 fret 000 sized guitar. I’ll likely be using a 25.25” scale as I find that quite comfortable. In order to push the bridge down nearer to the widest part of the lower bout, I’m thinking to use a standard OM/000 14 fret body shape (rather than the longer body shape of a traditional Martin 12 fret 000). The guitar will have a cutaway to allow access to the upper fretboard. Haven’t decided yet wether it’ll have a traditional center sound hole. If it does, the fretboard length will be reduced, likely to 18 or 19 total frets, and the sound hole will move down but by a lesser amount than the bridge. I might instead decide to move the sound hole to the upper bout (which I’ve done with success on GA sized guitars in the past). In either case, the top bracing will be adjusted to accommodate the modified bridge position, et all.

So I’m curious if anybody here has done something like this before and has any practical tips or suggestions they can share. Theoretical comments are welcomed as well but please identify them as such. Thanks.

[Jim Hepler]

Andy,
I made one several years ago. I had played a 000 28 in a store that I liked quite well, so I set out to make something loosely inspired by it. It had a very thick triangle shaped neck that I found oddly appealing, so I did something like that on mine. Also it has fairly wide string spacing. I did go with the extended upper bout like those Martins have. Now I'm not at all sure about this, but I've always thought that the longer upper bout was the original body shape and when they decided to go to 14 fret necks, they cut a certain amount off to leave the bridge in more or less the same location relative to the lower bout. I don't really have any theories about how the bridge position affects the sound or that business of forward shifting braces either for that matter.

With this guitar, I just drew a body outline based on picture of a 000 and also more or less the width, length and depth that Martin had on their web-site. I played around with the curves until it looked right to me, and I used a 25" scale and a bolt on neck, so it's a loose adaptation. the guitar sounds good to my ears, not huge bass, but well balanced and not thin by any means. I like lighter strings on it than I usually use. I think that has to do with the big neck as much as anything, but the guitar remains responsive even with the lighter strings. It is lightly built, though I don't have specs for top thickness. I think I used 1/4" braces. I don't remember if I tried to scallop them or not. I just tap the top and carve stuff off until I feel like it gets more responsive, so nothing scientific there at all.

I posted it on this site here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3309&p=32799&hilit ... sge#p32799

I guess to make a long story short, I made one and I like it, but I don't have any really specific tips. those are nice guitars and you build nice stuff, so I think you'll like what you come up with. Keep us posted.
-jim

[Freeman Keller]

I'm kind of like Jim, I've done it and ended up with nice guitars but they are hard to compare. My first home made guitar was a 12 fret 000 from the old StewMac plans but with a long scale. I built that 16 years ago and it is still a favorite player. I've recently built two OM from the LMI (Antes?) plans and again, great guitars. Its fun to compare the OM's since they are different woods but otherwise the same, the 000 is different yet.

I could answer specific questions but I would be taking measurements off the plans - the only thing that I modified was the amount of scalloping. I'm very partial to slotheads for a lot of reasons but the 14 fret OM is probably a bit more practical. Anyway, 14 fret long scale wrc over coco OM on the left and 12 fret long scale sitka over eir 000 on the right

One thing that I did learn a long time ago was to build guitar to fit available cases. Custom ones are nice but expensive

[Randy Roberts]

Andy,
This may be a total red herring, and I'm working from memory of about 10 years ago but:

Through a subsequently fortunate mistake, I once made a 14 fret neck for a 12 fret OOO that obviously screwed up the bridge placement. The solution to that particular problem ended up being (if I'm remembering correctly) cutting off the top of the long scale fret board at the first fret, and then making it a 13 fret neck. This let me use the 12 fret body (who's shape I far prefer) and have the bridge sitting in a good sweet spot.

My point is, if conforming to standard is not a priority, you might consider a 13 fret neck, 12-fret body. Maybe capo one of your current 14 fret 25.25 scale at the first fret for a few days and see if the feel is still acceptable to you. Definitely do some sketches to see where things land before investing your time.

I ended up liking the sound so much I decided to try it on a parlor, based on a 1840 Martin Size 1(the picture), and really liked the sound of that too. ( can't seem to find the pictures for the OOO).

Also gains you a fret on the fretboard.

[Alan Carruth]

I've done 12-fret necks on the 14 fret OM shape, but I think that the longer box works better for that. You can do a 14 fret neck on the 12-fret body too. Just my opinion.

[Clay Schaeffer]

Gibson did 12 and 14 fret necks on their L00 size bodies, and probably a few others.

[Gilbert Fredrickson]

Dana Bourgeois, 00‑12 Fret Coupe. Add a "0" and Bob's your uncle. I recommend 12 fret guitars. I'm interested in the 12 fret, slope shoulder Dreadnaught guitars.

[Andy Bounsall]

Thanks for all the replies and info folks. Martins 000 Norman Blake and Bourgeois 00-12 fret coupe scaled up to a 000 (thanks for that Gilbert) are pretty close to what I’m planning. Great to see that others have successfully executed the same basic idea.