Baritone or 7 string?

[Brian Evans]

I'm pondering my next project. I want to continue to explore the bass response that I got with my last archtop, with the sound hole in the upper bout and side a-la Ken Parker's instruments. I'm thinking a 27.5" or 28" scale baritone, tuned A-A, or a 7 string 25" or 25.5" scale with a low A string, upper six strings tuned E-E. What would you choose?

Brian

[Eldon Howe]

Just finished my 27 ½” scale, 8 string baritone (8 string like Taylors tuned B to B) so it fits in a standard case.
It is in the parker-sh style and has a laminated 1mm cherry/linen cloth top.
This top was my first test molded top in the vacuum bag.
It looked good so I thought I would use it on the baritone.
I’m not happy with the sound, not very loud and a bit tinny.
It does have the baritone sound I’m used to, just a bit tinny.
The sides are 2 and ¾” and has a ¾” arch both top and back. I was thinking this might provide enough air for the bass response.
The sound hole can be made larger on this guitar.
Future thoughts would be to increase the sides to 3” or use a taller arch with a shallower bridge.

[Freeman Keller]

Eldon, I'm curious what strings you are using on your bari and if you are satisfied with the tension. And Brian, if you go with 28 inches what strings will you use?

[Brian Evans]

Freeman, I would just use a set of baritone strings, probably. I haven't spent any more time thinking about this project, I'm kind of avoiding guitars right now (I go through phases). My buddy just asked me to make him a black cherry P-bass, left handed, so if he comes up with the wood I'll probably do that.

[Eldon Howe]

.016 - .070 Elxer . these are designed for the Taylor Baritone 8. Tension is less than Taylors I think. It has been a while sense I played one.
This guitar and my previous one has a free zero fret with only enough down pressure to keep the strings from buzzing on the zero fret. Bends are softer on the fingers, because the strings will slide along the zero fret, as there is no nut at the zero fret.
I think more down pressure at the bridge would help with the volume.

[Brian Evans]

I did some experiments, not very scientific, to see what happened with variable down pressure at the bridge. I found that sound volume stayed the same from 4 degrees - barely kept on the bridge (realistically would probably move with a hard player) to around 18 degrees or around 50 lbs of down pressure, and above that (I went to around 22 degrees, actually started there and went backwards) with around 55 - 60 lbs of down pressure, where the volume dropped noticably and the sound became very muted. My conclusion was about any amount of down pressure that keeps the strings on the bridge is fine, more doesn't add anything tone/volume wise, more is bad for the instrument in other ways, and too much is too much. Others have said the same basic idea.

[Beate Ritzert]

Strings? Ernie Ball 2837 .20-.90, for 29.5" scale with an electric guitar bridge. I've been using them on my bass VI at 30" with a strat bridge, tunes E-E and replaced them only because they did not sound sufficiently "bass like" for my purpose.

On baritone archtops with deep tuning You might consider strings for the Bass VI...

[Eldon Howe]

How tall are your sides? I went with 2 ¾”. Do you think 3” or more is what is needed for a baritone.?
Also, I don’t think the tone wood will make a huge difference as Taylor uses both spruce and Mahanoy.

[Timothy Gregory]

Just finished my 27 ½” scale, 8 string baritone (8 string like Taylors tuned B to B) so it fits in a standard case.
It is in the parker-sh style and has a laminated 1mm cherry/linen cloth top.
This top was my first test molded top in the vacuum bag.
It looked good so I thought I would use it on the baritone.
I’m not happy with the sound, not very loud and a bit tinny.
It does have the baritone sound I’m used to, just a bit tinny.
The sides are 2 and ¾” and has a ¾” arch both top and back. I was thinking this might provide enough air for the bass response.
The sound hole can be made larger on this guitar.
Future thoughts would be to increase the sides to 3” or use a taller arch with a shallower bridge.

Hey Eldon
Thanks for posting some thoughts on your build and great photo.

To me this is a great comment thread to hear about Baritone guitars along with the topic 'bending Ebony'.
You say your top is Cherry wood and sounds 'tinny', which is hardly surprising given cherry is a hardwood.
a laminated Cherry top is certainly stronger than a flimsy solid Spruce top but frame-strength matters more.

Perhaps you need a Spruce or softwood top-plate whereas Cherry-ply might smother its tone and volume.
I play a VI which is electric and i reckon a baritone acoustic ideally would need the VI scale length of 30in.

We used to get old jazz arch-tops back when nobody wanted them. All sorts like Egmond and Kalamazoo.
In general the ones with a solid top usually sound better than laminated tops which sound like a cupboard.
Kalamazoo had solid tops which are steamed and press-formed into arch-tops without any carving.

Ebony these days would be kiln-dried and brittle so quite different to regular Ebony that is air dried.
Years ago Merv Cargill acquired great timber when the Airscrew factory closed down in Richmond.
Those Airscrew props were built of high-grade imported timbers as any wood distortion was intolerable.