Smallest body size that works well for standard tuned guitar (steel or nylon)?

[Matthew Lau]

Dear new MIMF,

I'm thinking of building a travel guitar that doesn't suck.
I feel like a lot of the existing "travel" guitars are too small for standard tuning (Taylor big baby, Martin Backpacker, etc).
However, we've had some rather well regarded smaller instruments (Stauffer, Lacote, the Martin O, and many others that escape my mind at the moment).

I'd like to know what you think, and what some of your favorites are.

Please chime in if you have ideas for a good body style/size to use as a starting point.
I'd also be interested to hear if you think that one particular body works better for nylon vs steel vs silk and steel.

[Alain Bieber]

Hi Matthew,
I suppose many will ask you to be more precise. 1/ in what sense do you want easy transportability (airline cabin regulations, others, ..., ?), 2/ what kind of music you want to play?
A rather recent success (at least in Europe) story for a small steel string "outdoor guitars" is Brunner, from Switzerland. Pretty good description on the web. His neck solution is nice.
For nylon guitars, you pick a romantic. Stauffer necks can have, my feeling, some advantages in this context.

[Arnt Rian]

I've had a Brunner "outdoor" guitar in for service, it seemed like a nice instrument and a well thought out concept. MIMF's own Clay Schaeffer builds some interesting travel instruments, where the neck can be stored inside the instrument. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to give you the details. As for how small a guitar can be and still work well with a standard tuning, I guess it depends on how you want to define "work well"; anything much smaller than a dread is not going to be applauded in the bluegrass crowd, etc.

[Alan Carruth]

I made one the size of a Panormo for my daughter, back when she was seven, and it turned out to be quite a nice little instrument; maybe even close to the original I'd worked on. I've often thought that would be a nice backpacking box, particularlyu if you made it with a short neck. After all, all you need for 'campfire' songs are the money frets.

Alan Carruth / Luthier

[Clay Schaeffer]

I've made a few Martin "size 1" copies with the long scale (25.4) that really sounded nice. I think the longer body of the 12 fret guitars improves the bass response. Some of these I have made with removable necks , as Arnt mentioned. If you store the neck inside the body it makes a very compact package. You can then use a light weight gig bag to transport it in either the assembled or "knocked down" state.
I have made size 1, OO-12,OOO-12,OM, and D size guitars (and also a "travel" harp guitar) with the removable necks, and I believe they would all meet the requirements for carry on luggage for most airlines.
For a gut or nylon strung guitar a smaller body and shorter scale could be used and still get a nice sounding guitar. Some romantic guitars used 24" scale lengths.

[Alain Bieber]

I also have on my list of things to do a nylon "travel guitar". I go to Toulouse by air often for family reasons. I am impressed by the quality of some so-called "tertz" guitars of the early romantic great period. I am also conscious that I often play with a capo on the second position ... just to enjoy more.
So it will likely have a string length around 60 cm and will be tuned, I suppose, a little higher than standard tuning. With a Brunner like neck and bridge, I think I will make it easily go in a cabin luggage (56x45x25 cm).
The outdoor model called by Brunner his "two necks" model. One neck for steel, one neck for nylon... looks like another of his funny ideas. Maybe too difficult for my level.

[Arnt Rian]

(and also a "travel" harp guitar) .

OK, this I have to see; PICTURE!

[Clay Schaeffer]

Hi Arnt,
I'll try to post a picture. We have changed to a linux based OS since the Apple we had became too antiquated to browse the web, so I need to relearn how to resize pictures and post them. Old dogs, new tricks.....<g>

[Tim Douglass]

I made the one in the center for one of the $100 challenges.
Lower bout: 11"
Upper bout: 7 1/4"
Body length: 18 3/4"
Thickness @ Tail: 3 1/4" (this was supposed to be 3 1/2", but ???)
Thickness @ Neck: 3"
Scale: 25.4" Dreadnought scale

It definitely sounds like a "real guitar", although a bit more trebly. It would be real easy to shorten the scale a bit and shrink the package some.

[Matthew Lau]

If the guitar were a bike, it'd be a bike friday or Xootr Swift.
I'm aiming for a guitar with no compromises on functionality, but can break apart/fold in an airline carry on size.
The Voyage-aire, Clay's joint, Kif's joint, and the new joint that I'm working on should all fulfill that criteria.

The challenge that I have is that I'm thinking of writing for a singer-songwriter.
She's hampered by an over-sized plywood "box."
My aim is to build something as small as possible, without limiting the musicality...that, and I really like small guitars.

I prefer nylon strings, but most people seem to like steel.

I guess that I don't know what the limits are, in terms of smallness.
I've played a nice pre-war Martin treble guitar in mahogany, but the new Terz's leave me in the dark.
I've never handled a romantic era guitars, but I'd love to one day.

Is there a model size that you recommend?
I have the terz plans from the old MIMF, as well as a 1905 German guitar with a mustache bridge (apparently a cheapy).

-Matt

ps. Alain, I would *love* to see your take on the travel guitar.
I just bought a bunch of L-brackets to copy your jig system.

[Clay Schaeffer]

Hi Matt,
As I mentioned above, I think the size 1 guitar is an ideal size to get a "full size" guitar sound In a small size package. Storing the neck inside the body allows the guitar to become half as long for transporting. It also allows you to use a standard gig bag rather than having to make a special case which usually adds to the "bulkiness" of the package.
Terz guitars can sound quite nice if they are tuned up a step or two. Depending on her voice a terz guitar might work fine.

[Alain Bieber]

Matthew,
I think the key word to solve your problem is "articulated", for neck . Stauffer, Taylor, Schaeffer, etc... whatever style will do. Check with the internal dimensions of the cabin luggage your friend will buy. I also have been impressed by the Brunner bridge treatment which eases much the transition.
A recent GAL Plan shows an example of a very efficient little box, from Pons. You have on You tube the good Italian Duo of players Maccari- Pugliese who exemplifies its sound, of course with usual caveats on what is now technically feasible to boost the sound at the laboratory...

[Matthew Lau]

Thanks for all these tips!

I'll have to look into the size 1, and the pons.

[Paul E Buerk]

I've been building several small acoustic guitars with a 25" scale that fits in a standard Strat gigbag. The neck join is at the 16th fret, and the body is 15"x12"x2.5". Not exactly a travel guitar, but still convenient for throwing in the car, taking to work, etc. They've been holding their own in an acoustic trio so far.

[Matthew Lau]

Pretty cute.

[Clay Schaeffer]

Let's see if this works...

[Clay Schaeffer]

Both the harp guitar and size 1 guitar have removable necks that store inside the body. When disassembled the peghead locks into a recess in the neck block and the heel is secured by a bolt to the tail block (the same bolt that secures the neck to the neck block when assembled). The strings slip out of slots in the back of the bridge and are kept in order with a modified "bag clip".