using acetone as a glue for binding

[Brian Evans]

I've read references to using acetone as a glue, and I'd like to try it. Is it as simple as brushing acetone on the wood and the binding, and pressing/taping together? Do you have to dissolve some binding in acetone to get a mush, or is that just for gap filling at joints?

Thanks, Brian

[Randolph Rhett]

I too would love to know. I've tried brushing acetone on plastic binding and never got more than a feeble hint of them sticking together. I wish I understood the technique.

[Barry Daniels]

I have not used the goop for attaching the binding but have used it for joints. I cannot imagine that you can brush acetone on the binding and wood and have them get an adequate bond. Acetone will penetrate wood so quick that the surface will almost be dry by the time you get the binding in place. So if you intend to do this make the goop. Keep in mind that acetone will not work on ABS binding. To make the goop break the binding up into small pieces and place them in a glass jar with the acetone. It may take 24 hours for it to completely dissolve.

[Randolph Rhett]

It doesn't work with ABS? Hmmmmm... that might 'splain it!

[Todd Stock]

Works for ivoroid or other Cellulose nitrate binding, but does not work well for ABS/PVC alloys like Bolteron. Also note that Duco - often suggested for plastic binding - is just gelled acetone, so useful only on celluloid and pure ABS.

[Peter Wilcox]

I'll tell you how I do it - probably not an "approved" method, since it came out of my head, but it's worked for me on about 10 instruments with no failures yet.

At the starting point, I press the binding against the wood and with a pipette "flood" acetone between the wood and the binding, enough so that it just starts to flow out from under the binding, then tightly tape it. I then work my way around the guitar the same way, doing an inch or two at a time and taping. The convex curves go a lot faster, and the concave ones take closer taping. Cutaways can be more difficult, and I sometimes heat the binding a little to get it more flexible.

Acetone evaporates almost immediately, so applying it in open air and then pressing the parts together is not very effective. It melts the binding, and my thought is that if the binding is pressing against the wood when it melts, it can flow into the pores and irregularities in the wood to take a good hold.

[Barry Daniels]

Peter, that is very similar to my approach using thin superglue. Are you using celluloid binding?

[Peter Wilcox]

Barry, I'm not definitely sure what kind. I get it from China through Amazon. Most of it is listed as ABS, and a few as celluloid, but I don't have much confidence in that. I've used 6 or 7 different kinds so far, most listed as ABS, and they've all dissolved readily with acetone, even to make the colored goop. I'd suggest that if someone is going to try to glue a binding with acetone, that he apply some acetone first to see if the binding gets soft and dissolves and sticks to his fingers.

[Randolph Rhett]

Does anyone know what the LMI "binding contact adhesive" is, and whether it can be had for less elsewhere?

[Todd Stock]

I tried the LMI stuff and found it worked well, but between shelf life limitations, ease of use (needs to be in a squeeze tube for better control), and cost, it was cheaper and easier to use CA (BSI Thin and Medium) on unfinished stuff and CA low odor (BSI Gold) on lacquer-finished binding repairs per John Arnold's suggestion years ago on UMGF. CA will hang onto anything, and with a good shellac sealer, it's safe to use around top woods and light colored body woods.

Ivoroid glues well with Titebond and an acetone wash, but I usually just CA everything except the corners, which get glued with an ivoroid putty, then a dab of CA once dry.

[Arnt Rian]

Celluloid binding dissolved in acetone can be used as a regular glue for celluloid bindings, but you have to work pretty fast, which is why I prefer to use Duco; it stays open a bit longer. With either glue, remember to wait a few days before leveling, as the binding will expand because of the acetone, and then shrink back down as it evaporates. If you scrape it too soon, the binding will shrink below the surface of the surrounding wood.

Do you have to dissolve some binding in acetone to get a mush, or is that just for gap filling at joints?

It is always best to not have gaps at all, even if you use the dissolved acetone to "weld" an open joint its not going to look as good as a nice tight joint. Especially with "grained" ivoroid it is pretty obvious if the joint is filled.

[Jason Rodgers]

Barry, I'm not definitely sure what kind. I get it from China through Amazon. Most of it is listed as ABS, and a few as celluloid, but I don't have much confidence in that. I've used 6 or 7 different kinds so far, most listed as ABS, and they've all dissolved readily with acetone, even to make the colored goop. I'd suggest that if someone is going to try to glue a binding with acetone, that he apply some acetone first to see if the binding gets soft and dissolves and sticks to his fingers.

I've been getting my binding on amazon, too, but I don't know what the material is. It all says ABS, and I can believe that for the black and white stuff, but the perloid and tortoise looking stuff has a spicy camphor smell when scraped or abraded. Is that what celluloid smells like? I glue it all with thin CA.

[Barry Daniels]

Yep, nitro celluloid smells like camphor.

[Dan Smith]

I have not tried acetone yet, I'm using Weldon 16 solvent cement.
I glued some binding to a board using Weldon, acetone, and CA gel.
The Weldon was difficult pull the binding off, the acetone held fairly well, and the CA was easily removed.
Also, the CA clouded the turtle binding I tried.
I want the acetone to work, the Weldon is messy.
I'll try Peter's secret trick.
Dan

[Keith Howell]

I have found using Clear PVC Weld for the wood/plastic interface works very well. Then acetone to bond the subsequent layers.

[Todd Stock]

Cellulose Nitrate: Acetone, acetone and methylene chloride plastics glues (Duco, Weld-On, etc.), CA, acetone/Titebond. With acetone or acetone-based glues, expect a couple days for the excess solvent to migrate out of the cellulose nitrate...sand or scrape too soon and the binding or pulling will continue to shrink back.

ABS, ABS/PVC alloys, vinyl and mystery plastics from the exotic Far East: CA and methylene chloride based glues like Weld-On. For pure ABS, acetone works OK, but unless the binding says 'pure ABS', I assume it is an alloy of ABS and other plastics like CPVC and issue it will not glue reliably with just acetone. All those 1970's and 1980's Martins that are shedding their Bolteron (ABS/PVC alloy) bindings at the slightest provocation are proof that Duco just does not work well with anything but celluloid. For repair work on lacquer finishes, CA Gold will hold and will not burn into lacquer...a light scrape and light lacquer touch-up works.

My go-to for plastic binding or purfs is CA, although every mired or butted corner on an ivoroid or tortoid binding job gets a dab of putty made from scrape plastic and lacquer thinner in the miter.

[Barry Daniels]

CA can work on plastic depending on a couple of factors. The CA needs to be the thin type and it needs to be fresh. You can test it's "bite" by placing a drop on the binding and then wiping it off after 5 seconds or so. The binding should show an imprint of where the CA was placed that looks like an etching effect.

During actual use, the CA should immediately wick into the joint, almost disappearing. If it just sits on top you will not get a good joint, and this could be a surface tension issue, but I think it is a sign that the CA has lost its bite.

I think a good practice is to roughen up the surface of the binding before use by running it over a piece of sandpaper until it is evenly sanded. I use 100 grit paper glued to a sheet of glass for this. This gives some tooth for the glue to grab hold off. Sorry for all the oral metaphors.

[Dan Smith]

I'll tell you how I do it - probably not an "approved" method, since it came out of my head, but it's worked for me on about 10 instruments with no failures yet.

At the starting point, I press the binding against the wood and with a pipette "flood" acetone between the wood and the binding, enough so that it just starts to flow out from under the binding, then tightly tape it. I then work my way around the guitar the same way, doing an inch or two at a time and taping. The convex curves go a lot faster, and the concave ones take closer taping. Cutaways can be more difficult, and I sometimes heat the binding a little to get it more flexible.

Acetone evaporates almost immediately, so applying it in open air and then pressing the parts together is not very effective. It melts the binding, and my thought is that if the binding is pressing against the wood when it melts, it can flow into the pores and irregularities in the wood to take a good hold.

Peter, I followed your technique. It works great! In fact, I did some test pieces and I could not pull the binding off! In my opinion, it holds better than Welden 16.
I tried taping first, but the tape fell off as soon as I wicked the acetone. I used my thumb to hold a section, wicked the acetone, wiped off excess, and applied tape. No more messy goopy glue for me. Thanks Peter!
Dan