SawStop and fret slotting

[Bob Gramann]

Has anyone solved the problem of fret slotting with the SawStop table saw? I would love to replace my aged Craftsman table saw with the much better and safe SawStop, but the SawStop will only run when it has a 10" or an 8" (with a special cartridge) blade installed. I use the 6" StewMac blade. The SawStop folks suggest that I get an 8" blade made by Thurston. Many years ago, I had them make me a 6" slotting blade--the kind that requires blade stabilizers. I had the machine shop make me some stabilizers. The combination worked but, the thin blade couldn't carry off the heat fast enough and the cutting edge would expand and deform. I had to cut slits in the blade to make room for the expansion. That worked, but the results still weren't great. I tried an LMI blade, but it was essentially the same as the Thurston blade. The StewMac blade, with its thin edge and thick body, solved the problem. I've inquired at StewMac about them making an 8" blade, but I don't expect that to happen fast (unless maybe a whole lot of us ask for it). Has anybody solved this one?

I also seriously looked into the Bosch Reaxx saw. It will work with any blade. The two drawbacks are that it doesn't stop and remove the blade as quickly as the SawStop, and the ongoing litigation could leave me with an expensive saw without replacement parts or cartridges.

I don't want this saw for fret slotting as that is a relatively low risk operation given the sled and the small extension of the saw blade. I want it for all of the other things I do with a table saw, most of which are unrelated to guitarmaking. I don't have room in my shop for two table saws--one has to do it all.

[David King]

Get a top quality 8" or 10" plywood sawblade and have it "rim ground" at a machine shop or saw shop that's set up for that operation.
What happens when you mount a 6" blade in a saw stop? It won't turn on or it won't stop correctly? If the saw still runs with a 6" blade then really not an issue as you pointed out.

My concern with the sawstop is that tables saws are dangerous for a number of reasons NOT related to cutting into part of your body. A sawstop can still throw a piece of wood across the room at 400 ft/second. Don't get a false sense of security just because it costs a lot.

You can almost always make table saw cuts in two passes and limit the blade exposure that way as well as eliminating the risk of pinching the blade. That said I think a sawstop makes a lot of sense in shared environments like schools and multi-person shops.

[Bob Gramann]

The SawStop won't turn on unless the proper size blade is mounted--they tell me there is no way to bypass this "feature." I will discuss the rim grind with my machine shop. That could work. I just didn't want to do that myself.

My Craftsman saw has a blade guard device that is unusable--it is more dangerous trying to cut with it on than without it. I tried backfitting it with a riving knife--again, I couldn't get it adjusted well-enough that it would work without binding (I generally use a pretty thin-kerf blade).

I've used table saws for decades and I am still intact. But, my internal logic doesn't let me ignore a safety device when it is available.

[David King]

I guess I don't fall into the safe category as I've never used the riving knife or blade guard on any of my saws. That said I don't use my table saw very often, most ripping is done on the bandsaw, cross cutting is done on the chopsaw. If I'm ripping on the table saw I'll get to know the board and it's internal stresses before I start.

[Kary Karahadian]

Bob,
you can hot wire your SawStop: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... ur-SawStop

I use my old LMI fret blade and sled.


kary

[Bob Gramann]

Wow! That totally solves the problem. Thank you. Which of the saws do you have? Do you have any advice on making the purchase?

[Kary Karahadian]

I have the professional. very well made saw, technology aside. I replaced an old Powermatic contractor saw. no comparison. I strongly recommend the hydraulic mobile base if you need to move the saw around, much better than the integrated base. There is a local dealer in my town and choose to buy from them. Price was the same as online. It is on the pricier side, but well worth it in my mind.

I use the saw for furniture making as well as lutherie tasks but wanted to still use my fret slotting sled. That led me to many phone calls with SawStop, Forrest and Thurston (SS has excellent customer service). SS was concerned that their brake, if activated, would shatter a very thin kerf blade, but suggested i talk to a blade company to see if i could get an 8" that would allow the saw to start with the dado brake. If my memory serves me correctly, Forrest was willing to rim grind a blade but the cost was in the $300+ range. Then i stumbled upon the above solution and there was much rejoicing.

[Christ Kacoyannakis]

I was just thinking about this the other day, because I have a SawStop, and it really is great. A few years ago I did a lot of research and calling around and emailing to Thurston, StewMac, LMII, etc. to get a blade ground. Thurston was the only one who said they were working on it, but it never came to anything. I followed up with Thurston a few times, and they said they were having trouble selecting the correct blade steel to handle the grinding of the edge.

I also tried to figure out how to hotwire the saw, but never did (thanks for the info). I don't make many instruments, so I just defaulted to using my LMII jig, which does a great job, but is rather tedious, and I have rotator cuff issues. I was also going to buy a small contractor saw that I could run the StewMac blade in or a mini table saw for models that I could use with a small 3 or 4 inch slotting blade for jewelry, but I never pulled the trigger, because those would be single operation machines, and I really don't have the storage space.

Certainly, there are a few hundred people out there in the world who own SawStop saws, and make guitars or other instruments who would buy this, especially if StewMac sold it, to make it worth somebody's time to figure this out and machine the correct blade, but maybe it just isn't worth it.

[Joel Nowland]

I don't like and will never touch a SawStop for on main reason.

In 2012 they, the company, supported legislation to make the (patented) SawStop feature a requirement in all table saws. And don't tell me this is because they care so much about peoples fingers. They supported it purely for business. This would have put many saw companies out of business or made other saws ridiculously expensive.

Cabinet shops would go broke constantly replacing fired sawstops and blades. At the university sculpture department wood shop I attended the SawStop was a big problem due to misfires for many reasons. For this reason most were forced to use one of the other good old Delta Unisaws.

Another reason is that kickbacks, according to Fine Woodworking Magazine and many other sources, are 90% of all table saw accidents. SawStop does not prevent kickbacks or the blade from throwing wood back at you.

Anyway, what's next, supporting legislation requiring all citizens to wear bubble wrap to reduce injuries whenever outside the home.

1- Never push stock with your hand directly in front of the blade.
2- Always use a push stick for small width stock.
3- Never put your hand behind the leading edge of the blade without a push stick. If you never put your hand behind the leading edge, the blade can't cut you.

[Bob Gramann]

I went to Woodcraft today and looked at the Jobsite Saw and the Professional. The Jobsite saw was very cleverly designed with good storage, a usable cart, and decent lightness and portability. The price of all that is a flexible plastic table. That's a deal breaker for me. At $1299, I want a rigid, solid table (and a decent miter guide--this one was next to useless). The Professional was a very nice tool. I think I could be very happy with it. The only drawback for me is the size. It's bigger than the space I want to put it in and will require some reconfiguring of my shop. I want to see the Contractor saw before I buy. That will be a trip to another store.

[Michael Imbler]

I went to Woodcraft today and looked at the Jobsite Saw and the Professional. The Jobsite saw was very cleverly designed with good storage, a usable cart, and decent lightness and portability. The price of all that is a flexible plastic table. That's a deal breaker for me. At $1299, I want a rigid, solid table (and a decent miter guide--this one was next to useless). The Professional was a very nice tool. I think I could be very happy with it. The only drawback for me is the size. It's bigger than the space I want to put it in and will require some reconfiguring of my shop. I want to see the Contractor saw before I buy. That will be a trip to another store.

Bob I have the contractor saw and it is - very- high quality.

[Kary Karahadian]

Bob, i replaced one of the table extensions with a router table and lift, allowing me to eliminate the dedicated router table from my shop. the saw is pricey, but it will outlive me.

[Christ Kacoyannakis]

Kary, I am thinking of doing this. Which router table and lift did you go with, and did it fit right in, or require modification? Thanks.

[Kary Karahadian]

Chris,
i have a Benchdog table extension which took the place of the SS melamine covered extension. I already had a Jessem Mast -r- lift on my dedicated router table that fit right in it. There was some slight modification to the fence rails. the addd weight of the iron extensions tended to shift the center of gravity of the saw but that was easily remedied by repositioning the table extension legs. If i remember correctly, mounting holes didn't require any modification.

[Christ Kacoyannakis]

Thanks. Very helpful to know. I have a rather small shop, and if I could eliminate that router table, it would be great.

[Bob Gramann]

I examined the Contractor saw today. I like it a lot. I like the Professional even more, but I don't see $700 more utility in it for the work I do. Woodcraft in Richmond had only the saw with the 36" fence on display. He said it was far superior to the 30" fence. That 6" makes my shop a bit more crowded, so I don't think I want it. I will probably order the Contractor saw sometime in the next couple of months. Thank you to all of you for your help on this.

[Michael Imbler]

I examined the Contractor saw today. I like it a lot. I like the Professional even more, but I don't see $700 more utility in it for the work I do. Woodcraft in Richmond had only the saw with the 36" fence on display. He said it was far superior to the 30" fence. That 6" makes my shop a bit more crowded, so I don't think I want it. I will probably order the Contractor saw sometime in the next couple of months. Thank you to all of you for your help on this.

Since my shop is the leftover space in my two car garage that is filled with two cars, a motorcycle, yard equipment, etc. space is a premium with a bandsaw, tablesaw, mini tablesaw, drum sander, oscilating sander, disc sander, mini thickness sander, and mini-mill, etc.

Anyway, I threw away the extensions for the contractor saw stop saw, and cut the fence off to shorten it equivalently. Makes for a great saw in a small space, and I haven't ever missed the extra fence length. I cut my sheet stock down with a circular saw and do the fine work on the table saw.

With jigs I have built, I can do glue ready scarf joints for the neck, and taper fretboards with finish edges (using woodworker blade).
Mike

[Bob Gramann]

I bought the SawStop Professional with the 30" fence. It's footprint was a bit smaller than the Contractor saw (and my beloved encouraged me to get the better one). It is a very nice saw! Every feature seems well designed. It runs with no vibration and cuts accurately. I'm very happy with the purchase. I have found it makes sense to do things on it, like cut the peghead scarf joint, that I wouldn't even have considered on my old Craftsman saw.

Even though I now know how to hotwire it, I thought "Why not get a 10" fret slotting blade made?" So I had The Blade Manufacturing Company make me a blade to cut a .023" kerf slot. It cuts very nicely. I will address the thickness issue in a separate posting.

[martin niclosa]

My experience with SawStop is not so good!

[Christ Kacoyannakis]

Bob, would you share with us the specs of the blade (obviously 10 inch, or 8 inch), but did you go with carbide tipped, or any other specs (price would be nice) and wait time. Thanks. I have been trying to solve this issue for years.