Fox Bender adventures

[Bob Howell]

Once you hear/see a crack start, can you apply super glue to stop it, or is it too late.

I read one post about super glue and bending which seemed to advocate this. Apart from the staining issue.

[Bob Howell]

Also, in choosing wood, I went with what was at hand and forgot to check on how it bent. I have some walnut around, but most is flat sawed(sawn, just does not look right) I just bought a 9" wide piece of 8/4 sapele to re saw. Now I hear its a bitch to bend. Also have figured maple, 8/4.
What domestics bend well.

[Bryan Bear]

One more thing to add since no one has yet said it. Super Soft II is as close to a magic potion as I have come across in my lifetime. Spray it on the sides 12-24 hours before you bend and things will go much easier. It almost feels like cheating.

[Bob Howell]

Today I successfully bent the second side.

[Bob Howell]

Note in the above picture the burnt wood at the waist. The wood seemed burnt through and through. Once it gets to that stage I think it is hardened and wont go any further.

I noticed it only loosened up and moved when smoke was coming off. I could find no spot between. I pumped water on but it seemed to cool it off rather than help.

I'm not that worried about the black. I have used the blow torch in finishing many of my turning projects and chairs and tables for years. The young girls in my life love it and my wife is warming to the look. Also my 13 yr old great nephew pronounced it really cool. So I'm keeping that burnt set.

I am preparing a set of walnut ribs. This is the last of the sapele for a while. I'm ready for easy.

I have read some say the then place them in the Fox bender to even out the shape.

I'm thinking of this. Would I wet it also?


I'm heading up to Highland Woodworking to look at Super Soft today. $25 sounded extravagant but now, not so much.

[Bryan Bear]

the Super Soft II seemed expensive to me too until I bought some. Now I use it anytime I have any doubt. I don't use it on everything but if I'm not sure, it seems like cheap insurance.

[Eric Knapp]

the Super Soft II seemed expensive to me too until I bought some. Now I use it anytime I have any doubt. I don't use it on everything but if I'm not sure, it seems like cheap insurance.

Is Super Soft II used by instrument makers a lot? I'm not a builder quite yet but I've never heard of it. If it gives makers an advantage it seems more would be talking about it.

-Eric

[Bryan Bear]

I don't know how many makers use it or how often, but it is certainly talked about quite a bit on the various instrument making fora. I first used it on some curly maple in 2012 and had been putting off trying it for a good while before that instrument so I know I first read about it at least 5 years ago. I'm sure there are references to it here somewhere (Super Soft II, supersoft II, SSII or SS2 might be good search terms).

IIRC Todd Stock, Steve Smith and Ryan Mazzocco have talked about it and are members on this board. I'm sure there are others but those stick out in my mind.

[Bob Howell]

Where do you get ssII . The price is jumping around

[Todd Stock]

Buy SuperSoft II (SS2) directly from Veneer Supplies...a gallon is about $35 plus S&H...Highland Hardware sells it as well, but at $50/gallon. Makes figured woods much easier to bend and reduces or eliminated cross-grain ripples in woods like ash, maple, etc. Minimal effect on rosewoods, but with all those resins, they bend well already. Spray on wood (wet coat); allow to dry. Bend within 24 hours (I have found 12-24 hours after application to be the best window on most woods...more than 24 hours sees a reduction in the effects from SS2 application, and after 2-3 days, there's no noticeable advantage.

SS2 is absorbed by the wood, softens and pumps up the cell wall/cells, and makes fiber collapse during bending - particularly with tight bends in the waist or cutaway - much less likely in woods like curly mahogany and ash, curly anigre, figured cherry, and flame or quilt maple. Mahogany, khaya, and sapele are all woods that prefer to be bent as dry as possible because they tend to show fiber compression damage on the inside of bends if bent wet...SS2 largely eliminates issues on these woods, and allow them to be bent with enough water to get tight bends done on the Fox bender.

A gallon of the stuff lasts a long time, and if one busted side is avoided, that's pretty much break-even with figured stock.

[Bob Howell]

I got the walnut planed down to.08-09. I don't know how accurate you can get with a had plane.

I sanded the finish side, removing all marks, and then planed the inside surface.

I have no reference thickness to go by. Usually when I plane thin stock I just lay a known scrap of the target thickness down beside it to control the final pass.

But what is .08. Anyhow I prepared the sides and then successfully bent them on the pipe, with no problems at all in 15 min each.

I did not put them in the bender, as they were fine as is. All that work assembling and I don't see a need for it yet.

I will re saw more sapele this week and pull out some to make another set of sides. These I will plane down to .07-08, and then try again on the pipe.

Thanks for the tips.

[Randolph Rhett]

+1 on SSII. I understand it is a relatively easy formula to replicate, but I don't remember it. Still, a little goes a long way. I've used it on veneers for laminate tops. I didn't assume it would penetrate enough for a .075" side. Going to give it a try on the next set of figured sides I bend. Ruined two sets of quilted maple recently, bottle of SSII sitting there laughing at me.

[Steven Smith]

It doesn't take much of the SSII to do a set of sides so a gallon will last a long time. I checked several years ago and there is no limit on shelf life.

[Bob Howell]

I have made great progress on bending. Sanded a set of sapele sides for an OM build down to 5/64" or so. Bent them on a new 3" pipe to about the right shape. Then put into the side bender for two, 30min. sessions over a day. Next morning they were about perfect.

I used a 4"x 36 belt sander(bench top) to get to that thickness. Not that hard.

Bending works at that thickness.

Also got some SSII for future use.

[Todd Stock]

Glad to see things working out. Most of the issues I've seen on mahogany, walnut, and various acacias like koa are exhaustion of the small amount of water used before the package becomes too hot and dry (it's a balancing act between too much water and fiber collapse, and too little and case hardening) and failing to support the side in bends (aluminum slats on open molds with tight bends). Spring steel slats and molds with at least 4 formers help a lot, as does a blanket with quick heat rise and using a butcher paper reservoir to calibrate and hold the water required for bending.

I bend Weiss sides on the Fox without pre-bend, using the same approach as outlined in my bending videos for figured mahogany on YouTube, and if you regulate the blanket temp, scorching should not be an issue. What I've found is that - if your blanket is a 5 watt per square inch blanket, and the blanket is allowed to heat at max rate, as soon as steam is seen leaving the bending package (slat/foil/wet butcher paper/dry or SSII treated wood/wet butcher paper/foil/slat/blanket/slat from bottom to top), it's ready to bend. Waist gets lightened to 3/8" off the mold, bend lower bout, and upper bout after, then waist tight and set the bouts...then as soon as steam is no longer visible from the bending package, take blanket temp down to 270-280 degrees for 30 minutes or so, then let the side sit for at least 12 hours.