Good planes are always expensive, and generally a good investment (I have several Veritas and Lie-Nielsen's that attest to that).
I will eventually be working on something that will require carving an arched top, and I'd like to get some feedback on some of the planes suitable for that purpose. Christmas is coming up and the LOML usually likes to indulge me with something nice for the shop...
I use several different planes for arched plate. Some are quite similar to the Ibex planes, but work a bit better: unfortunately they were custom made copies of ones my violin making teacher had, so they're not readily available. I have a couple of little 'squirrel tail' planes from Woodcraft Supply that are pretty good for larger stuff. They're quite similar to the Kuntz #29510 that's in the Metropolitan Music catalog. The violin makers planes that Metro has are the German pattern, which I find harder to use than the Ibex planes. A friend got a little Japanese made plane that would be easy to modify as a radius plane recently; I think he got that at Woodcraft as well.
I use the largest Instrument Makers plane from Lee Valley with both plain and toothed blades, and I just got a curved bottom squirrel tail palm plane from LV as well. Once your hand gets used to them the tiny finger planes are OK.
I modified one of these: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/144822 ... plane.aspx by cutting off the top half of the handle and attaching a longer, more comfortable wooden handle. I used it to do the rough carving on a mandolin top and back. It was very useful. I finished the job with one of the Ibex curved bottom finger planes and a Lee Valley double convex palm plane. The final smoothing was done with a scraper.
For a birthday or maybe it was fathers' day, I got the Lie Nielsen version of the squirrel tail plane.... That thing is awesome... Plus a smaller IBEX finger plane which , oddly enough had a rounded sole but a squared off blade.... Still working that to a rounder shape. I saw some bronze IBEX knock-offs on Fleabay that were so inexpensive I might take the risk and buy one, as I need something in between the squirrel tail and the finger plane for carving mandos .....
Kerry Werry wrote:I've also used this guy with some success for the Concave part.. rough work only obviously..
Rougher than some of the planes mentioned above, or rough as in "needing to follow up with a better plane for finishing"? That certainly looks like it would leave a surface ready for scraping and sanding, Kerry. Not the case?
One of my woodworking goals is to make my own planes that work as well as any of those. I've made 8 so far and they are getting better. I won't be satisfied until I reach for one I've made first because it's better. Not there yet, but it is very fun to make them yourself. You can get replacement blades for all the planes you listed for not much money. A few scraps of wood and a few hours and you can have a plane. And someday a plane that works better for you.
I have two I made, Eric - a jack with a lignum sole and a 22" purpleheart jointer. I was wondering if I could make a copy of that Japanese shaping plane...
Steve Sawyer wrote:I have two I made, Eric - a jack with a lignum sole and a 22" purpleheart jointer. I was wondering if I could make a copy of that Japanese shaping plane...
Darn, we can't get the blades for those Japanese planes. All the other ones have replacement blades. Some of them have A2 or PM-V11 replacement blades. I'll be trying to make several at some point. Share if you do one.
Steve,
The Lee Valley instrument maker's planes are Ibex planes like LMI sells. I have the two largest from LV and I like them. I also have the pullshave that Kerry recommended. He is right, it is best for fast and somewhat rough material removal, and it is quite effective for that. With all these things, the smaller the bite you're taking, the smoother the results. I also have a LV spoon scraper which is a small and fairly inexpensive tool that works quite well for places where the curve is fairly sharp. I don't have the toothed blades for my little planes. Toothed blades are good for reducing tearout, but the surface will ultimately have to be scraped, so I just use scrapers for the last step anyway. Toothed blades would probably speed up the process, but every hour in my garage is a little victory for me, so I'm not in that big a rush yet. I just carved an archtop (it's in the archtop section of this forum) and I used a very small card scraper (about 1 12" x 3/4") which I filed into a curved shape on one side. It was very useful for the final shaping and smoothing. You do have to learn how to sharpen a scraper, which I seem to be gradually getting better at. The first few times I tried it, I didn't find scrapers to be very effective tools, but once I got there, I started to really appreciate them. Don't feel that you need to buy everything at once to make a single carved instrument. I did my first archtop with straight chisels, a scraper and sandpaper. I have more tools now and I'm faster and better at it than I was then, but more tools does is not necessarily the cause of the improvement.
If you're talking a carved top like a Les Paul or something where you don't need to remove a huge amount of material, you will have less need of the coarser tools. My experience has been with full archtops where I've carved a large plate 1" thick down to less than 1/4". In that case I start with a regular chisel then go to the pullshave, then the little planes then the scraper. Remember, as long as your coarse stuff doesn't overstep its bounds, the wood only cares how you remove the last little bit.
hope this helps,
Jim
I wasn't going to bring it up, but since they've been mentioned I'll say that hard scrapers, like the ones I talked Stew-Mac into carrying (not that it was difficult), are really the best for this. I often remove quite a lot of material with mine, and also use them for the final surfacing on violin plates, where they object to the look of a sanded surface. I never could get a thin scraper to stop washboarding in the channels, where the heavy scrapers will leave a nice smooth surface. I'll note here that, while I probably should have asked to, I don't get any sort of commission on the sales of those tools.
Jim Hepler wrote:Remember, as long as your coarse stuff doesn't overstep its bounds, the wood only cares how you remove the last little bit.
True, that...
Thanks for the input, Jim. I'm an absolute scraper freak. I love them and probably have a dozen of various sizes and shapes, some of which I've made using some spring steel I bought from McMaster-Carr. I also use scraper planes for flatwork.
As to my most immediate application - yeah - it will most likely be a carved-top solid body. I'm a long way from attempting an arch-top. I'm realizing that my current project (a Tele copy) might get put on hold because of weather-related finishing delays (I don't have a spray booth), and I could be starting on another project sooner than I'd anticipated. I have some nice curly maple in the stash that would make a good top for an LP copy...
Alan Carruth wrote:I wasn't going to bring it up, but since they've been mentioned I'll say that hard scrapers, like the ones I talked Stew-Mac into carrying (not that it was difficult), are really the best for this
As I mentioned, Alan - I LOVE scrapers, and I've been sorely tempted to pick up a couple of those beauties from StewMac. They're not that expensive, and I can tell that they're probably wonderful to use.
I have a 1/4" thick plane iron left over from back when I was building some wooden planes, and was wondering about shaping that into a scraper (my son has access to a milling machine! )
Alan Carruth wrote:I wasn't going to bring it up, but since they've been mentioned I'll say that hard scrapers, like the ones I talked Stew-Mac into carrying (not that it was difficult), are really the best for this. I often remove quite a lot of material with mine, and also use them for the final surfacing on violin plates, where they object to the look of a sanded surface. I never could get a thin scraper to stop washboarding in the channels, where the heavy scrapers will leave a nice smooth surface. I'll note here that, while I probably should have asked to, I don't get any sort of commission on the sales of those tools.
I've been looking at those scrapers and I watched the video of you showing how to sharpen and use them. I have a question, if I may. I do not have a bench grinder. I've been reluctant to get the thick scrapers because I don't think I have a way to do the hollow grinding. Is there another way or is the only answer that I should get a grinder?
I'll leave it to Alan to address alternatives, but a bench grinder can be had cheap and they don't take up much space. Right handy to have too.
New from Harbor Freight, or used - watch Craigslist. Set up an If This Then That recipe (https://ifttt.com) for a Craigslist search for grinders or bench grinders. I think a 6" grinder would do it as I think that's what Alan is using in that vid.
Steve Sawyer wrote:I'll leave it to Alan to address alternatives, but a bench grinder can be had cheap and they don't take up much space. Right handy to have too.
New from Harbor Freight, or used - watch Craigslist. Set up an If This Then That recipe (https://ifttt.com) for a Craigslist search for grinders or bench grinders. I think a 6" grinder would do it as I think that's what Alan is using in that vid.
Thanks, I've been looking but I want a slow-speed grinder and my budget is very limited. Regardless of the price it would delay other purchases I want more. I have a lot of sharpening equipment, just not a bench grinder. I might even try my hand at making thick scrapers out of an old chainsaw bar I have. Knife makers use those and they are supposed to be pretty tough. I'm also working on my shop re-build and I have to get the walls up before the WI cold sets in. It's a race!
I have used a sharpening stone for my Carruth scraper when I scraped softwood. It makes a cleaner edge than the grinder. I use the grinder when I'm working hardwood. It makes a more aggressive edge. I don't think the hollow grind is necessary. I really like that scraper.
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