Hand planes

[Ken Whisler]

I've got old yard sale variety planes that I've worked with over the years. I've never really bothered to tune them up; I just keep a decent edge on the blades and use them to a certain point generously outside my desired dimension, and then switch to scraper then abrasives. After reading for the 100th time Bob Ruck's old GAL article on fine tuning tops, I've decided to do more with the plane (and edge tools in general) and less with abrasives. And I've also decided to invest in some better planes. Specifically, a #3 or #4 smoothing plane and a block plane. I may get a better spokeshave as well. I have a Woodcraft store close to me, so I can try a snootier plane before dropping $140+ on it.

Which begs the question: Are the snootier planes really worth the prices they are asking compared to the Grizzly or Harbour Freight offerings? Grizzly is boasting that their smoothing plane and block plane soles are perfectly flat.....at a fraction of the cost of the Woodcraft offerings.

[Eric Knapp]

I've got old yard sale variety planes that I've worked with over the years. I've never really bothered to tune them up; I just keep a decent edge on the blades and use them to a certain point generously outside my desired dimension, and then switch to scraper then abrasives. After reading for the 100th time Bob Ruck's old GAL article on fine tuning tops, I've decided to do more with the plane (and edge tools in general) and less with abrasives. And I've also decided to invest in some better planes. Specifically, a #3 or #4 smoothing plane and a block plane. I may get a better spokeshave as well. I have a Woodcraft store close to me, so I can try a snootier plane before dropping $140+ on it.

Which begs the question: Are the snootier planes really worth the prices they are asking compared to the Grizzly or Harbour Freight offerings? Grizzly is boasting that their smoothing plane and block plane soles are perfectly flat.....at a fraction of the cost of the Woodcraft offerings.

That all depends on what you're trying to do. I went through a lot of planes before I finally got a Primus Smooth plane like this one:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/prim ... plane.aspx

It is truly leagues above anything else I've ever used. The blades are better, it's a joy to hold, and the Lignum Vitae bottom runs so smoothly on a piece of wood. In the hands of a master crafter almost any tool can do good work. But, a tool like a Primus can go to another level when setup and used properly. This assumes you know how to sharpen well, a given around here. It also assumes you have a level reference and can flatten the plane once in a while. Given those, this plane can surface a table top to an amazing state. The only other planes that approach it are the Japanese planes. They are a different world for most of us but their steel is the best.

I would think Luthiers would need the best cutting tools but I'm a full rookie. I will be doing the final joining of everything with my good planes. I hope I have enough.

-Eric

[Alan Carruth]

Low end planes are more on the order of plane kits: a box of parts that can be made into a good tool with some work. Sometimes it's a lot of work, and assumes that the thing will work at all. One of my students got a #4 smoother a few years ago tat was unusable. The depth adjuster wouldn't even engage. What you're buying for the extra money in a high end plane, aside for a design that will actually work, is that somebody else did all of the tuning up so that it's ready to use.

I've been using a Lee Valley 'Veritas' low angle block plane for years. It's far and away the best block plane I've seen, and worked right out of the box. Recently one of my students came in with a Stanley 'Sweetheart' low angle block plane that was an exact copy, except that it has a better throat adjuster. I can't say if it's as well tuned up, but it should work fine once that's done.

[Bob Gramann]

I haven't seen the Grizzly planes. I have purchased a Groz that was advertised to have a flat sole (within .003"). It was barely worth the $30 or so that I paid for it. Even after flattening the sole and tuning it up, it just wasn't a very useful tool. Parts of it were stamped metal and bent easily. I keep it just to remind me about "bargains."

I have several old Stanleys that I bought at antique stores and tuned. They are good planes. But, I have two of the WoodRiver planes from Woodcraft. I bought one (#4) to try hoping to find a good one cheaper than a Lie-Nielson or Veritas. I loved it. It was easy to tune and heavier than the Stanley. It holds an edge, makes transparent shavings, and is, in all ways, a joy to use. When I felt rich again, I bought another (#6). It also is a joy to use. There's nothing the WoodRiver planes will do that my old Stanleys would not. But, the WoodRiver planes are much less tempermental and get me to where I want to be much faster and much easier. I use the old Stanleys for the initial shaping of rough wood and for quick reducing on a new piece so I don't mess the edge on my good planes. I have one of the Stanleys set up with a back bevel for very hard woods. I want one more that I can use with a toothed blade. I use the WoodRiver for my final surfaces and for jointing where they excel.

I would say that the good (WoodRiver, Lie-Nielson, or Veritas) plane is not necessary but well worth it. I also have a Veritas spoke shave that I consider well worth the price and a Veritas curved bottom palm plane that is excellent. If you're going to use something all of the time, go with the good tool. Otherwise, you'll pay for the cheap tool with aggravation.

For the block plane, I was able to find a Stanley adjustable mouth block plane at Lowes for around $30. After tuning, it turned out to be an excellent tool. I use it a lot and I am very happy with it. I am not at all tempted to look for a better block plane because this one meets my needs and is also a pleasure to use.

Please note that even with the good tool, you have to sharpen it, check and flat the bottom, if necessary, and adjust it before you can judge its performance. The samples in the store may not be tuned.

[Bob Orr]

+1 for Veritas have the block plane and the low angle smoother and they are both great. The thicker blades made of much better steel make a huge difference. I also have a low angle jack plane from Quangsheng which is also very good. Mine came with three different blades and I turned the middle one into a toothing plane using a cutting disk in a Dremel and it is great for initially levelling the plates with no breakout. A skim with the smoother finishes it off and I don't need to use sandpaper at all.

Cheers, Bob

[Eric Knapp]

...it is great for initially levelling the plates with no breakout. A skim with the smoother finishes it off and I don't need to use sandpaper at all.

Cheers, Bob

I am so looking forward to doing this. I have the tools and wood, just need the time. Darn day job...

-Eric

[Todd Stock]

Vintage Stanley are affordable and tune up well...used them for decades. A replacement blade and chip-breaker addresses the only real issue - the thin iron and flexible cap iron that is standard. For a block plane, the Lie-Nielsen low angle adjustable mouth is a go-to tool that is narrower than the Lee Valley and more comfortable for the range of folks we have in the shop (ranging from small females to ham-sized handed ex-mil types). For bench, start with a #5, then a decent #4. If just one bench plane, the Lee Valley Low Angle Jack is excellent once the handle is tuned up a bit (for low angle stuff, Veritas, but their standard bench planes are not even in the running when compared to the Maine-made stuff from L-N).

We have the full range of stuff in the shop, but for guitar work, there's not much in the way of a reason to go beyond a #4 or 4-1/2 and a #5 or #5-1/2. Over the years, we've sold off much of the vintage stuff in favor of the current Lie-Neilsen and Veritas stuff, which *gasp* is simply hands down better than even the best of the Bedrock or standard Stanley lines. The Chinese knock-offs that Woodcraft sells are a step up from the Kunz or Indian-made Anant stuff, but we've found that the US or Canadian made tools are better tuned, fettled to a greater degree out of the box, and worth the extra money.

[Arnt Rian]

Hand tools are like a lot of other things, some folks like the things to simply to work, some also enjoy messing with them. I'm into vintage amplifiers and rusty machines, so of course I also prefer the old Bedrocks with Hock upgrades and shop made contraptions over L-N, Veritas and the like. For one thing you learn a lot by making and/ or setting them up right, but most importantly I get more pleasure using them. A few nice condition standard old Stanley Bailey planes in the most common sizes should require minimal work to be put back into action, and is probably the best value for your money. L-N and Veritas may work somewhat better, at least initially, but they are really expensive and lack the "mojo" (IMO).

[Brian Evans]

I have a selection of vintage Stanley/Bailey #4 to #8, including wood soled, a Miller Falls low angle block plane with adjustable mouth that is my go-to for almost everything, high angle, toothed blade, etc. A number of wood-bodied planes. Most are as old as I am, all tuned up and "users". Some were my grandfathers and date from the turn of the last century, others are flea-market and antique sale. Most cost under $20. I have a Stanley 45 in mint shape with a full set of blades that was my grandfathers. Fair to say I like planes.

[Clay Schaeffer]

" I've got old yard sale variety planes that I've worked with over the years. I've never really bothered to tune them up"

You might try tuning what you have and see if you like them well enough. Would you want someone to judge the quality of your guitars without first tuning and playing them?
I like the old Stanley planes, and yes, it is a "bang for the buck" thing.

[Bob Hammond]

I didn't really understand how useful a handplane is until I bought a LN 102. Then I picked up an old Stanley 60-1/2 that was owned by GM body patternmaker who kept in prime condition. Since then, I've picked up some other 1950ish planes - Stanleys, Sargents, and Dunlaps - and they're all good when tuned up. Last weekend at a yardsale, I found an absolutely New-in-Box block plane for $7 that is a Stanley 9-1/2 branded as a Craftsman, and it should work very well after the preservative oil is cleaned off and the blade is honed.

[Chuck Tweedy]

Ken (and Eric the nub), you have stumbled upon one of the subjects that will cause a thread _here_ to ramble on-and-on-and-on...
It is left as an exercise for the reader to identify another one of these subject/threads that is current - but has pretty much run aground

hint - it is in Jam
consider the demographic

[Clay Schaeffer]

Hey Chuck,
Remember the good old days, when threads would run to 50 or 100? I guess our age is showing.

[Chuck Tweedy]

Right?!!
AND, I make a sassy comment, and the thread sits idle for 3 days ... THREE DAYS PEOPLE!!!!

[Eric Knapp]

Right?!!
AND, I make a sassy comment, and the thread sits idle for 3 days ... THREE DAYS PEOPLE!!!!

I'm back to reality and have less time for this. I'm also still learning the forum protocols and pecking order. It seems there aren't many other wooden plane fans here. How about Japanese planes?

-Eric

[Bryan Bear]

We were all over on another thread discussing hide glue, wiping joints with acetone, sanding vs planing center seams, describing tone and Stadavari's secrets. You should have come by; there was some knucklehead talking about spraying shellac. . .

[Chuck Tweedy]

Now that's more like it!!
Hey, Baby Bear - I think someone's sleeping in your bed - better go check.
BTW - you forgot about Art v Craft. That's what was going on in Jam.

Eric, the "pecking order" is for us old-timer's to know ... and for you to figure out. Since there are only about a dozen people who frequent here (and POST), you probably already have an idea of what's up.
The good news about the low population is that the real jerks who hang around some boards are all gone. Nobody here to get a rise out of.
If you see me making inflammatory comments, feel free to hit back. I'm merely attempting to illicit some life from this pathetic band of old fuddy-duddies
Ha!

[Eric Knapp]

Eric, the "pecking order" is for us old-timer's to know ... and for you to figure out. Since there are only about a dozen people who frequent here (and POST), you probably already have an idea of what's up.

I am getting the idea, yes. There are over 4,000 members on this forum and there's only a dozen frequent posters? This seems like a wonderful resource for people interested in the craft, unparalleled really. I hope chatty newbies are tolerated.

The good news about the low population is that the real jerks who hang around some boards are all gone. Nobody here to get a rise out of.

That's great, trolls and jerks sure can spoil a good thing.

If you see me making inflammatory comments, feel free to hit back. I'm merely attempting to illicit some life from this pathetic band of old fuddy-duddies
Ha!

Old? Ha! I'm on a forum of musicians and I really am old there. I'm in the same age bracket as many of you frequent posters but I feel darnright youthful here. There's something about learning something new I've wanted to do for a long time that is making me feel that way. Thanks for putting up with me, so far. I promise I'm not this chatty in person, I'm actually much worse.

-Eric

[Chuck Tweedy]

you're fitting right in

[Bill Raymond]

Chuck, I think you meant to "elicit", not "illicit", though I suppose some might say your posts border on the latter. <G>