full size floating humbucker on archtop

[Greg Martin]

I was asked to build another 17" archtop yea !! but he wants a full size floating humbucker without routing thru the top I said like Peter Bernsteins Zeidler? he said yep. I though that guitar was modded after the fact with the full size bucker and thought also it was routed into and thru the top, but pics Ive seen show it without a trim ring. So how was this done ??? Anyone?

[Bill Raymond]

Though it's not a Zeidler archtop, I did see a photo of a similar instrument with floating humbucker here: http://www.victorbakerguitars.com/blog/ ... ny-ibasco/
From the photo it appears that the guitar has a rather tall overstand and a humbucker attached by some means to the fretboard extension. I would imagine that it could be fastened with a bracket that attaches to the end of the extension. There also appears to be a bit of padding between the top and the pickup. I hope this helps you some.

[Michael Lewis]

Yet another opportunity to figure all this out before cutting any wood. MAKE A FULL SCALE SIDE VIEW DRAWING. It is easy enough to take measurements and design the guitar around a specific pickup. Bill is right, a tall overstand is needed for a big pickup.

[Brian Evans]

I have a Johnny Smith style pickup mounted to the neck extension of my archtop that is a full size humbucker. It is a bit of an oddity, most are mini-humbucker sized. Tough to make it fit, you might have to carve the top differently with less arch there, to be honest.

[Patrick Hanna]

Isn't this a full sized floating humbucker?

[Barry Daniels]

No, that is a special low-profile humbucker built for an archtop.

[Randolph Rhett]

Full size and floating don't mix well. The Zeidler is a very odd looking fish. The customer is always right, but perhaps you can explore with them whether they really need a full size pickup? There are custom wound pickups that might be a better solution if existing offerings from people like Kent Armstrong won't work.

[Greg Martin]

haha mr Lewis hits it on the head again. Before posting I got my blueprint out and started re figuring neck measurements. I found that the neck angle would have to be 4.75 degrees minimum and the extention would have to be at least 1/2" from top to fingerboard. the bridge height would close to 1-1/8"
Ill show the customer but to me its almost unreasonable .Mr Zeidlers guitar does sound great and I think the Gibson classic 57 bucker helps it along. I think a custom wound pickup could get very close. Ill see what the customer really is after.

[Pete Halliday]

I know this is a bit off beat, but could you mount the pickup to the neck so it floats but have a trimmed hole in the top that it goes into? Or go one step further and build with a soundhole instead of f holes?

[Greg Martin]

I had thought about building an extended neck block so you could keep the neck angle at 4.5 and rout a recess into the top but not thru the top and since the extended neck block is glued to the top the pickup could be mounted to wood like a p-90. I dont know know if its at all worth the effort and what those changes would do to the tone ,or vibration of the top. Now I think the better idea is a custom pickup of the customers choosing.He likes the Gibson classic 57, which uses alnico II magnets and is 7.5 ohms. Im sure a custom builder could come close.

[Mike Conner]

Greg,
I started a 16" archtop build and purchased a StewMac Golden Age neck full humbucking pickup with gold cover, rated 8 Ohms. I'll make my own mounting ring and attach to the top but without the typical big window cut in. My design uses a 0.5" overstand and a 1" bridge height as a target. The pickup looks to be 0.875" tall with a minimum height adjustment screw length. With my 0.5" overstand and 0.313" (5/16") Macassar Ebony fretboard, adding in the fret height I am pretty close to getting it to fit!

The distance from the bridge to the pickup poles will be 6", essentially allowing for a 24 fret board. This is closer to the bridge than a typical 20 fret jazz guitar, but I want the brighter tone. The pickup will partly sit above the X-braces, and I think this area is less acoustically active so top mounting the pickup shouldn't detract from the acoustic tone.

On paper, and looking at my prior builds and arch profiles, the pickup will just fit with a slightly shallower arch. I'm projecting a 1-1/8" bridge height with a 3.5 degree neck angle. So, it should work out. We'll see once the box is ready and I can mock up the neck.

My first builds have a custom Vintage Vibe neck mounted mini humbucker like the above picture. Really a nice acoustic tone, but definitely not a Classic 57 full humbucker sound. That's why I'm trying for the top mounted full humbucker on this build.

I hope this helps! I guess the point is to consider top mounting with custom rings, and that the 0.5" overstand and 1-1/8" bridge height is not out of the normal range.
//mike

[Greg Martin]

Mike thanks for the sizes and info Ive got to ponder it again and make a complete side view drawing, I do think that the area of the top nearest the neck block and pickup location could be adapted to the full size bucker with out harming tone and not routing thru the top completely , it just needs close engineering. When I was talking about a custom pickup I had in mind vintage vibe pickups. They are into custom builds and pricing is reasonable,tone is awesome.It could get close but Just like a mini bucker sounds different compared to a full sized bucker the floating pickups also sound different,
Having listened to
the great videos of Peter Bernstein and his modded Zeidler with a classic 57 at the neck,I know That is the tone My customer is shooting for and Im challenged to give it a go, of course the customer doesn't play like Bernstein, and I have a ways to go building, but its a fun project just the same.Something different,I like different !!

[Barry Daniels]

Cutting though the top for an inset pickup weakens the top in a critical area so usually this is offset by heavier bracing. Definitely a trade off in compromising the top or the pickup.

[David King]

I'll bet a custom Kent Armstrong thin profile HB sounds better than a run of the mill full sized HB. You get what you pay for more often than not in pickups.

[Randolph Rhett]

I'll bet a custom Kent Armstrong thin profile HB sounds better than a run of the mill full sized HB. You get what you pay for more often than not in pickups.

+1

[Greg Martin]

Ive used the korea KA floating bucker and the customer did like it, I wonder what tone difference you would have between the 2. anyone offer up some experience on this?

[Patrick Hanna]

No, that is a special low-profile humbucker built for an archtop.

Okay, I stand corrected.

[Patrick Hanna]

Actually, Barry, I don't believe it was low profile at all, but, sure, it is narrower than an "in-the-top" sort of humbucker.

[Barry Daniels]

http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Elec ... AufP8P8HAQ

Looks low profile to me.

[Dave Stewart]

I've used a few of Kent Armstrong's handwound floating 12-poles PAFs .... good pickups (& different from the offshore ones). Usually mounted to the underside of the fingerrest (although on a 7-string i did stick an untabbed 14-pole to a brass plate inlet into the underside of a fingerboard extension)