Mortise and Tenon - What's Your take?

[DJ Parker]

Hello to All,

I am looking for feedback on how you do your neck-to-body joinery. As you can see, I built the 'O'Brien' version of this tool and as I work with it more I'm finding the concept to be good and generally popular but the overall tool to be kind of big and cumbersome. I am likely looking too deep into this and feel free to say so but there are several ways to skin a cat....what is your's?

Thank you,
DJ

[Alan Carruth]

I've used a tapered mortise and tenon for years. If you'r going to glue it a straight M&T might be a problem to get loose: the moisture of the steam would make the glue swell and lock it. Tapered ones; wider at the top than at the bottom, come loose fine.

[Bob Hammond]

The traditional dovetail/tapered joint works fine and as Alan says, it's likely easier to disassemble if glue is used. But the modern straight tenon version was designed to use bolts & barrel nuts rather than glue, and so disassembly would be easier than with a glued joint.

It would seem to me that both styles require a fixture that is equally cumbersome, or would require handtool skills of equal dexterity, and so I see no difference in that regard.

[Barry Daniels]

DJ didn't say anything about gluing the joint. My opinion is that the jig is overkill for straight mortise and tenons, but since you have it, use it.

[Bob Hammond]

I'd rather have a fixture/jig that's overbuilt and steady, than a shaky one.

About the glue, I think that an accurately cut, set, and glued dovetail joint is certainly a wonderful thing that should be learned (I can't do it). But a dry bolted joint allows adjustment during assembly and afterwards, which can be a good thing too. I try to keep an open mind about the advantages of traditional techniques and fine craftsmanship, and also about sensible innovation.

[DJ Parker]

Hmmm, Barry is right. I did not mention gluing versus bolting or dovetail versus straight M/T. Honestly I have not attempted those other joint techniques yet. I like the option of easy neck removal though for more reasons than joining. Finishing for example would likely be easier. I initially began with the Collins book on gypsy guitars which does not show a removable neck and it is M/T jointed. He does them different now with a bolt-on assembly.

If anyone would like to share a picture of their neck joint rig I'd be happy to see it.

DJ

[Michael Lewis]

I started out with the dovetail neck joint and found it very time consuming and difficult, so I started using a straight mortise and tenon and bolted them together. I found that straight M/T joints have to be as carefully fitted as dovetails so I went back to the dovetail joint. They are not real easy to make but I know what to do, and I know they can be disassembled if necessary.

The dovetail joint is intimidating only if you aren't familiar with it. It's a solid and dependable way to attach a neck to a body which is why I use it, and probably why several major manufacturers use it.

[Aaron Helt]

If you want to save room in the shop, you could just cut the mortise and tenon with a table saw. That is how I do it. Just like in the Cumpiano book.

[Gilbert Fredrickson]

I use the jig illustrated in the StewMac routing template section, a bevel gauge, shims, and cam clamps to masterfully cut perfect sliding dovetail joints that virtually fit themselves. I'm considering going back to the saw and chisel to regain that excitement I experienced so many years ago at the beginning of my journey to wood wonderfulness

The Robert O'Brian M/T jig is powerful magic. I am in awe of O'Brian's sorcery.

[Todd Stock]

I do both bolted M&T and dovetail, depending on the instrument and customer. Both can be cut with the same neck jigs (in my shop, the Woolson jig and a shop-made mortise and socket jig) or milled by hand or machine (the table saw makes pretty quick work of the job, but saw and chisel works fine). Dovetail is a bit lighter and takes about the same amount of time to execute as M&T once you are on the flatter part of the learning curve, but getting there can be a bit of a challenge for someone that is not repairing and has a steady stream of resets. For new builders, it's hard to beat a bolted M&T or bolted butt joint for keeping the job manageable, but knowing how to efficiently execute both is useful in a build/repair shop.

[Randy Roberts]

for whatever it's worth to you, adjustable necks offer some advantages. Several ways of approaching them, and Mike Dollin's method with adjustment access through the heel is probably the best of them, but here's a method posted a while back.

http://www.mimf.com/library/Randy_Rober ... -2008.html