Question on smoothing plane

[Ron Daves]

Stanley Bailey # 4 1/2 is on left.

Stanley Planes.JPG (32.36 KiB) Viewed 15684 times

I'm far from an expert on planes. I found two planes in a yard sale and am wondering if they are the right tool for thinning my next stringed instrument. One is a Stanley Bailey # 4 1/2 and the other is a Stanley Bailey #4. I've been planning on purchasing a smoothing plane, but pulled these tools out of my treasure trove and they look a lot like what EBay and Amazon refer to as smoothing planes. Input, please and thank you.

Assuming the answer is "yes", what would be the correct angle to put on the blade?

[Bryan Bear]

Yes those are both smoothing planes and with some clean up and set-up they will serve you well in many ways.

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#num4

There is a lot of great information about planes all through this site. I encourage you to look through it. You don't need to know it all to make good use of hand planes but it is a great resource.

As for smoothing planes for thicknessing your plates and sides, I'll let others answer with specifics since I use a drum sander. For thicker stock, I will start with a jack plane across the grain before going to a sander but that is about it for me. I'll be watching closely though since I'd like to switch to thicknessing with a plane someday as my skills increase.

[Bob Hammond]

A planed board is so much nicer than a sanded board. I'm steadily improving my handtool skills but I'm certainly not an expert yet. If you want to see somebody who can use a No.4 for anything, then go look for Paul Seller's videos.

If you look at Cumpiano & Natelson's book, there's a description of handplaning techniques, including the use of a toothed blade to prevent over-thinning the stock. You could cut teeth into one of the blades with a triangular file.

It will be necessary to check and tune up the planes, e.g. flatten the sole, and sharpen the blades at a suitable angle, typically 30 degrees for general work, and maybe steeper for hard woods. There is much information about doing this on the internet. Most important, is to sharpen the blade properly, and to adjust the plane so that it cuts very thin shavings.

[Bryan Bear]

I don't think the bevel angle is super critical. These are bevel down planes so the cutting angle will always be 45 degrees (unless you use a back bevel). 25 to 30 should be fine.

[Clay Schaeffer]

Many people like the # 4 1/2 plane for smoothing. It tends to be heavier than the # 4, but this advantage is somewhat off set by the wider blade, so the actual performance may be about the same. Properly set up they will both do a good job of thicknessing and smoothing the wood.

[Bob Hammond]

Ron, I thought that I might write a few more words about handplanes.

For mass production, they're inefficient. But for a hobbyist or a low-volume builder, I think that they can be efficient and pleasant. Once the technical mechanics of sharpening, adjusting, and applying them to the wood are learned, then the advantages become more obvious. If you consider how much time, money, and maintenance that an electrically powered machine such as a planer or sander requires, then handplanes might be a better choice for you.

Handplanes require little space, they don't produce dust problems (health, cleanliness, and fire safety issues), they're quiet (you can think, listen to music, talk, and not disturb other people), and they don't present significant costs of replacement parts, supplies, or downtime for maintenance. They can be used to work on very small pieces that would dangerous on a machine, or very tedious with other handtools. And they're very portable, if you'd like to put together a traveling toolkit. A No.3 or 4, a No. 60-1/2, and a spokeshave or two would likely suit >85% of the work. If you think about it, for the price of a widebody sander, you could buy a set of first-quality planes, with a lot less hassle in the long run.

But an important thing about using handplanes, is to have a sturdy, stable, rock-solid workbench and effective clamping system. But you know that already, don't you?

[Matthew Lau]

Those are smoothing planes...should work fine.

I'd recommend lapping the bottoms flat on a reference surface (granite, glass, tablesaw) with sandpaper (80 grit is fine).
Wax the soles. Sharpen the blades. You may want to splurge and get Hock or Veritas PM-V11 blades.
I'd recommend one toothed and one normal blade....if you like this handplaning business.

Or you can bug someone to use their huge belt sander...

[Bob Hammond]

"Or you can bug someone to use their huge belt sander..."

Hah, that sounds to me like the 'best kind of boat', i.e. a boat that someone else owns. The pleasure of it is dependent upon who's responsible for the upkeep, and is subject to the whims of the owner -- the (un-) availability. I'd rather own and understand the tools that I need.

[Joel Brown]

Learning to sharpen the blades is critical in getting them work properly.
I use King waterstones and a leather strop. Also a honing guide to hold the blade at the right angle helps unless you are naturally gifted.
Often the blades in these old planes are in really bad shape being rusted and pitted and even when new were not the best blades.
I replaced my blade and chipbreaker with ones from Hock, a little pricey but makes a big difference and still way cheaper than a LN or Veritas plane.

[Ron Daves]

I replaced my blade and chipbreaker with ones from Hock, a little pricey but makes a big difference and still way cheaper than a LN or Veritas plane.

Thanks for that input. I'm anxiously waiting my newly purchased Hock blade and chipbreaker. I've taken classes which taught the hand sharpening method. I've tried other jigs and fixtures and found that the only thing that works for me is a veritas sharpening guide. I can get things pretty darned sharp, but I know I can get them sharper. The leather strop sounds like a good idea.

[Joel Brown]

I resisted the strop for a time.
But it does add an extra level of polishing.
I bought a cheap one off ebay and the leather isn't very good, I would recommend one with horse butt leather.

[Mark Fogleman]

Not as romantic but a piece of MDF charged with rouge works better for me.

If the workpiece is less than twice the length of the plane you can use that plane as a jointer. For a smoother you can adjust the frog to tighten the mouth a #5, 6, 7 or 8. Bedrock versions make this easier than the non-Bedrock versions. If you can get a #62 bevel up jack, the adjustable mouth makes this adjustment extremely easy. It is the most versatile hand plane and is my go to for most.needs. Additionally, swapping out to #62 irons with steeper bevels or changing the micro bevel of your only #62 iron to a higher angle help with smoothing squirrelly grains cleanly.

[Bob Hammond]

Joel is correct about replacing cheap, worn, & pitted blades. I did that for the lowly $10 'Windsor' plane from Harbor Freight, and after that and some sole refinement then it feels good in the hand works well. I think it'll be part of a travel kit.

If you look for Tom Fidgen's videos, you'll see that he uses a Veritas low-angle jack for most surfacing work (I suspect that he swaps out blades), a blockplane for trimming, and then assorted specialty planes for cabinet work. Paul Sellers just gets it done with the trusty No. 4, and he has several videos about sharpening and practical use -- his opinion is that for joinery, there isn't a huge advantage to sharpening finer than 240 grit. But I'm happier with going to 1000 and a few licks on a strop.

[Waddy Thomson]

The Veritas Low Angle Jack is great with toothed blade!

[Alan Carruth]

The 'best' sharpening angle will depend on the steel. Softer steel might need a shorter bevel to hold it's edge in the hard woods we use. OTOH, sometimes the softer steel can hold it's edge longer on something hard, like bone or wood with silica in it, since it's less prone to chipping. I have two #4-1/2 planes, and set one up for softwoods and the other, with a Hock iron, for hard woods. I use a tiny secondary bevel on top of the Hock iron to get something closer to a scraping cut, which tears out less on figured wood. The larger included angle also helps the edge last longer.

Make sure those beasts are properly tuned up; it's the best investment of time you can make.

[Brad Heinzen]

Playing around with attack and bevel angles for different purposes can really make hand planes a pleasure to use. As others have noted, good blades make a big difference. I find that I like using both O-1 and A-2 steel blades. The O-1 is smooth, sharpens beautifully, feels to me like it takes a better edge, but doesn't seem as tough. The A-2 is harder to sharpens, feels a bit grainy to me, but seems much tougher. I use mostly A-2 blades for general carpentry (great for trimming primed or painted wood, MDF, plywood, etc.), and mostly O-1 blades for woodworking. I keep block planes on my bench with both types loaded up and ready to go.