Need advise on hand saw purchase

[Joel Brown]

I am planning to buy a Gyokucho #372 Rip Cut Dozuki for cutting dovetails for some drawers.
Is this a saw that will be also useful for guitar building?

Thanks

[Dennis Weaver]

I have a Gyokucho Razorsaw S-610 bought from Woodcraft. Even though you are supposed to rip pieces with the rip side of my double saw edged blade I wind up using the cross cut blade for fine spruce braces.
Here is why-
Blade for the Ryoba Gyokucho Double Edge Razor Saw
Cross-cut: 14 tpi; Rip: 7 tpi

I just looked up your saw for info and got-
TPI: Rip cut:19 (fine woodworking)

I would think it would be good for a lot of cutting work on guitar wood.

Oh you didn't buy it yet. Might want to do a rip/ crosscut two sided blade first. Can make long cuts. Your type is better for straight stuff with the blade reinforcement but unless a specific kerf size say for fret wire or whatever I see you're limiting the depth of cut and limiting what you can do with it.

Actually that seems strange to have a back brace on the blade on a rip cause you can only rip boards lying horizontally, or very short ones (maybe like you said Dovetails it is great for- stiff for straight cuttting) I think the fret saws obviously would be cross cut saws.

I like my type of Japanese pull saw in that I can make long cuts.

[Todd Stock]

What other tools do you have available? A dozuki is a specialty tool that is useful for the shallow rip cuts associated with dovetailing, but could be used for some of the neck joint joinery on dovetailed or M&T steel strings. Dozukis have spines because they are used to cut dovetail, box, and other joints, and do not require the depth of cut needed for general crosscutting or ripping.

One thing to note about guitar joinery - unlike furniture styles with exposed joinery, most guitar joints are hidden from view, so the shims we use to fit a dovetail are not considered a defect. This does not mean accurate joinery does not save time, but for most luthiery joints, a 'cut close and pare to the line' approach has no negative impacts, and a $16 Zona or $30 budget pull saw will work as well as a $1600 Yataiki, with a sharp chisel being more a factor than the saw.

The Japanese style saws are a little easier for new woodworkers to handle, as they take less in the way of technique to start and to track...if you don't mind the slightly fuzzy kerf on rip cuts and the need to exercise a little more caution on the return stroke, you'll usually get more saw for your money under the $80 mark with the mass-produced Japanese saws than with what are usually 'kit' tools at that price in Western saws (which can be tuned up to perform as well as much more costly saws, but do you really want yet another hobby?). At $80 and up, Western saws will equal or exceed the quality of Japanese saws through about $150-$200, then it's pretty much parity...terrific saws at terrifically high prices from Adria, Bad Axe, Gramercy, Lie Nielsen, and master-grade or better tools from small factory sawsmiths in Japan like Chojiro or traditional saw smiths like Yataikis.

A 14" or larger band saw with 3 to 4 tpi skip-tooth and 10 tpi blades is probably going to be the most useful cutting tool you'll have for instrument building, with a small back saw or crosscut-sharpened pull saw for fret slotting, a coping saw with fairly fine blade (min. 20 tpi to avoid too much backside splintering on crosscuts (for removing waste on heel carves and peg head shaping), and a fine razor saw for notching and quick trimming jobs.

[Joel Brown]

So I was hoping to use this saw for cutting dovetails on drawers and also for guitar building but it seems unclear if it will have a use for guitar building.
I do have a cheap Bock Bros back saw, but I wouldn't want to use it on anything critical, just rough cuts.
Veritas makes a good dovetail and crosscut saw for about $60.
Is a bandsaw going to be a requirement or are there ways around it?
Its the one major power tool I don't have and it would be good to know up front if I will need one, because my wife isn't going to be happy about another large expensive power tool in the garage.

[David King]

Bandsaws are remarkably precise, compact, quiet, fast and cheap for the work you can get out of them. I see used 14" deltas of various eras going for $300-$400 on craigslist all the time. An enclosed base one with the resaw riser block rarely fetches more than $500. The Asian copies should be 1/3 to 1/2 off those prices. I'd avoid the Harbor freight version which you'll see for $125 used. They take up about 2' x 2' and are very easy to attach to a dust collector with a 4" hose using a loop of wire.

[Joel Brown]

Bandsaws are remarkably precise, compact, quiet, fast and cheap for the work you can get out of them. I see used 14" deltas of various eras going for $300-$400 on craigslist all the time. An enclosed base one with the resaw riser block rarely fetches more than $500. The Asian copies should be 1/3 to 1/2 off those prices. I'd avoid the Harbor freight version which you'll see for $125 used. They take up about 2' x 2' and are very easy to attach to a dust collector with a 4" hose using a loop of wire.

I have been looking on CL but nothing yet.
I was considering the Craftsman 10" for $189.99
Would this get me by for awhile?
I don't plan to use it for resawing, just for cutting curves in the heel block and cutting out the body shape.
I was also thinking I could just use my router and hand tools for the heel block and a jigsaw for the body.
Grizzly makes a nice 14" for $550

[Peter Wilcox]

Don't skimp on the bandsaw - plan for the future. Being able to resaw opens up limitless wood possibilities that would be otherwise difficult/expensive to access. Not to mention the other uses for it, including just being able to quickly step over to it and accurately whack the end off of something.

[Joel Brown]

Don't skimp on the bandsaw - plan for the future. Being able to resaw opens up limitless wood possibilities that would be otherwise difficult/expensive to access. Not to mention the other uses for it, including just being able to quickly step over to it and accurately whack the end off of something.

That is what I hear. Its a balancing act to decide where to spend money on tools and the band saw is a big cost.
I have an old Craftsman table saw that I don't consider exactly safe.
I did already put $190 into it by upgrading the fence to a Delta T2 and that helped a lot, but it doesn't have a blade guard or riving knife.
I could add on a splitter but that seems like a band aid and i think i really need a new saw with descent safety features.

[Bob Hammond]

I've been happy with the japanese style Vaughn 'bear saws', at about $20-25, either single or double-sided. If you remember from last summer, I made a 'one-handed fret slotting jig that worked well.

That said, I like band saws, but I'd avoid anything smaller than a 12" saw. I have a 14" Delta-Milwaukee that's tuned up pretty well, and a nifty-fifties era aluminum-bodied 12" Craftsman (King-Seeley) that's ok too.

[David King]

Joel, where-a-bouts are you? A Walker-Turner 16" bandsaw is a legendary machine so keep an eye out for one of those too. They usually sell in minutes.
I bought my Delta 14" from a used tool dealer and it wasn't a bad deal at all, about 1/2 what a new one sold for.
Regarding resawing no one is going to care as much as you do about doing the job right. I've heard so many horror stories over the years about guys losing priceless wood to pro woodshops apparently filled with idiots and nincompoops.

[Todd Stock]

14 inch band saws show up all the time on Craigslist for less than new 10" and 12" stuff from Rikon or Delta. Even a 1/2 hp 14" saw will handle most luthiery jobs...I've resawn 8" wide stuff with a riser block, sharp blade, and good setup. Also - look for used Rikon, Ridgid, Walker-Turner, and Jet, in addition to Delta - the Rikon-made Sears 14" welded steel saw may only rewash to 8", but usually available fairly cheaply on the used market.

Local DC area Craigslist have Ridgid, Walker-Turner, and Delta 14" saws listed today - the Delta 14" needs to have the table cleaned of what looks like the usual garage-induced rust, but a 1 hp saw at $200 asking? Not too shabby.

[Matthew Lau]

Hand saw: focus on stuff for finer work
For Japanese, I like the Gyokucho ryoba 180 mm or 210 mm.
I have a Lee Valley Dozuki that's nice too.
For Western, the lee Valley gent's saw is hard to beat. I bought one " factory second"
Wenzloff also makes a great saw.

Band saw--no smaller than 14"! I second on the 16" walker turner.
I have a 14" Rockwell, and it's nice.

Hand saw for precision. Bank saw for grunt labor.