Building a hurdy-gurdy

[Michael Lewis]

Charlie, that looks 'old'. An anachronism, out of it's time. Very cool!

[David Ackley]

It looks fantastic, Charlie. Thanks for taking us through the process.
I'm also curious about how it sounds.

[Chuck Tweedy]

Wow - quite a journey, but one hell of a destination!
Awesome Charlie!

[Barry Black]

Nice job Charlie.
Seeing your pictures is making me anxious to get on and finish mine but thats not going to happen until I purchase a new home here in Comox BC.
So how does it play?

[Charlie Schultz]

Thanks everyone for your comments- I'll post some sound clips soon.

[Yuri Terenyi]

Hi Charlie.
How's the leg?
And how's the gurdy?

[Yuri Terenyi]

So, once again.
Hi Charlie! How's it going with the leg? And the gurdy?
(You will notice that I cunningly changed the message a little bit, to avoid being repetitive...)

[AL Lombardo]

Hey Charlie,
Like all have said, wonderful job. I think I had bought a set of plans when Deb was working but they still sit in my shop. A project like this takes some big determination for me and as much as I would love to build it just to hear it. Life gets in my way a lot these days

I admire your attack to this challenge and look forward to a few sound clips as well.

Warm regards...Al

[Jamie Unden]

So where are the sound clips?

[Charlie Schultz]

Ok, sorry, I've been pretty lame on this I guess. To be honest, I'm not completely happy with it, but here we go. I do not have a reference, so I could be all wet here.

The melody strings (2) by themselves. I'm not sure if I might be an octave off?? Not enough (or too much) rosin on the wheel?

140227-000.mp3

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The drones by themselves (hmm, reminds me of Jaws)

140227-002.mp3

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This I'm not too happy with, but here are a few "notes":

140227-001.mp3

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I've got a little axle noise in there too.

So feedback from you HG experts would be appreciated, thanks.

[Yuri Terenyi]

Hhhhmmmmm.........
Er, weeelll... Emm, well, there seems to be some call for a bit of more work... I don't doubt for a moment that Vivaldi, when he wrote his couple of concertos for a hurdy-gurdy and strings, had in mind exactly this kind of sound, but it unfortunately has been hijacked by others with different views..
Seriously, though. There seems to be a grave mistuning. Also that rosin/wheel/etc problem. There might be a bit of a too drastic angle problem with the strings having far too much pressure on the wheel.
Have you had anyone that actually plays the instrument have a go at it? The h-g is an instrument that is not exactly obvious to someone that never experienced one. The setting up is quite an art in itself.

[Yuri Terenyi]

Charlie, is there any further progress on the gurdy? You can't just shove it into a corner, you know. It needs some player familiar with the setting up to make it into a good instrument, that's all.

[John Mueller]

P.D.Q. Bach would have LOVED your instrument as it is now!
I Think Yuri is right it just needs fine tuning (pun intended) and set up.

[Yuri Terenyi]

Well, old PDQ has used the windbreaker, and the slide windbreaker...(with a harpsichord continuo!) Also invented the Pandemonium... In the light of those, I think an unfinished gurdy fits right in.

[Charlie Schultz]

Thanks for the nudge Yuri. It's been a really busy summer, but I just finished the last project. I got the HG back up on the workbench yesterday and started looking at it.

For C/G tuning, can you confirm that the C is C4 (c') and the G is G3 (g)?

[Yuri Terenyi]

Er, Charlie, I simply dunno. For one thing, there are plenty of players these days who opt for the two chanters an octave apart. It all depends on the string thickness. The reason I don't know is simply because I'm not familiar with the far more common French-type pitch, let alone the C/G one, which seems to be mostly American. (From what I read, tis came about because the readily-available other instruments in any session make C/G tuning the most useful in America, while D/A or whatever it is (the D is certain, it's the other one) is more useful in the Old World. (See, how I'm not even sure about quite basic tunings. The Hungarian one, that I prefer, is A/E)
In fact, I really think that from this point you should place the matter into the hands of an experienced player. And, of course, stand closely behind his/her shoulder, observing everything that goes on. And that includes the question of strings.

[Charlie Schultz]

Well put Yuri. I finally found a guy and he came over and gave me some great tips.
1. My bridge slots (melody strings) are too deep and I need to add parking slots for the strings while tuning (i.e., the notches should be more like those on guitar nuts).
2. String setup still needs a little work to get them exactly parallel to and just kissing the wheel (prior to adding the cotton).
3. Wheel needs a little truing.
4. I now understand some of the nuances of the trumpet bridge- mine needs to be remade.
5. He suggested adding a (replaceable) inlay below the trumpet bridge.
6. Apply rosin liberally.

And then we spent some time discussing tuning.

So all in all it was a great visit and he thought I was 99% there.

[Yuri Terenyi]

The bridge slots are practically always padded with paper shims. That's because just about all bridges are made the way violin bridges are, the grain running across. (That's why I make my bridges with the grain perpendicular to the soundboard - no shrinkage.) So with every weather change you need to re-shim the slots. That's normal.
The wheel truing is an inescapable part of the final setting up. (a scraper is used, with the wheel turned by hand, in effect creating a very primitive lathe of single use. (in Hungary until very recently the peasant players used simply a piece of broken glass for that.) I put a kind of plywood scrap shaped like a hoop in front of the wheel, so the scraper doesn't press against the soundboard, but against the hoop. (looks like this: П . The wheel fits inside the slot.)
I wouldn't worry about the bit under the trompette bridge. That was practically never done for a new instrument. But, if the trompette does make a noticeable dent (after many years of playing, even with spruce soundboards), then is the time to add one. French hg-s were quite often made with hardwood soundboards, and these hardly ever get dented.

[Charlie Schultz]

Thanks Yuri. I've still got a little mechanical noise in my knob I think, but most of the other things are now taken care of. My melody string tuning was way off- both are supposed to be tuned to G for this instrument and the string gauges I have. And for some reason I thought only the drones got cotton, but all strings get cottoned (maybe the drones get a little more). And there is such a thing as too much and too little cotton.

So here are some more sound snips.

low drone.mp3

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high drone.mp3

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trumpet.mp3

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melody scale.mp3

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all on.mp3

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Learning to play the thing is another story <g>

[Yuri Terenyi]

That last one starts as a grand crescendo in some mega-romantic symphony.
But otherwise, yes, you are certainly getting there. The actual tuning of the drones should be taken care of first. The last clip shows that it can be a bit improved. Thing is, when the strings on a gurdy are not completely in tune, it does tend to sound as if the instrument was a total write-off. At first try not to bother about any but the bass drone, and tune the melody strings and then the tangents to it. So when you play, just the three strings, it sounds all in tune. And then adding the other drones is not a problem. In fact, I don't remember how many strings you have altogether, but in French standard gurdies there are six, and the six are never played together. The reason for the number is that you can play in two setups, resulting in twice as many keys possible. So don't try to fire all of them up at once.
That mechanical beating doesn't sound very good, though. I don't know if the recording makes it worse t5han it really is, though.
But, yes, you are nearly there!