Acoustic Guitar Pickup........Which One

[Gordon Bellerose]

I am embarking on my first acoustic guitar build, and I would like to install a pickup during the construction process.
Which pickup is everyone else talking about, and using?

[Mark Swanson]

You will get different answers, but I prefer the Baggs products.

[David King]

Whatever you get just keep in mind that some day something better will inevitably come out and you'll want to change it. Since almost all pickups are designed for installation after the fact you could wait until you know what the guitar sounds like and maybe make a better choice?

[Gordon Bellerose]

Wow. There really are a lot of choices aren't there?

I went to the LR Baggs site and did some reading. All that did was give me more questions.

1. Is the under-the-saddle pickup the way to go? Seems simple enough.
2. There is one that is a one piece saddle/sensor. It seems like future setups could be difficult with that one.
3. There is another that has an under the bridge plate stick-on sensor, and a mic inside the guitar. Seems like that would give adjustment for the largest range of sounds, as well as giving stereo capability. Probably one of the most expensive too, I assume.

4. I don't like sound hole controls, but most of them seem to come with them. Am I wrong to like the controls mounted on the side of the guitar? And, can all or any of these systems work with that type of control?

[Bob Gramann]

I'll step in here with an opinion--everybody has one. I've never met a pickup that I like. I particularly don't like under saddle pickups--I feel that anything that interferes with the bridge to saddle joint diminishes the acoustic sound of the guitar. If my customer really needs a pickup, I recommend one of the bridge plate transducers like the K&K Pure Mini or the McIntyre Feather. Each gives a reasonable sound and does not hurt the guitar acoustically. You will need to install either after you complete the guitar--you have to know exactly where the strings come through the bridge plate. I also recommend to my customers that they keep the stuff installed inside the guitar as simple as possible. The simpler it is, the less likely it is to break and the easier it is to fix when it does. I just retired from running a monthly show. The number of performers who showed up with something not working inside the guitar was astounding. Usually, it was just a dead battery--loosen the strings and reaching in and replace it (and hurry up, it's show time)--but, sometimes, the electronics were just broken. Keep all the electronics on the outside. If you want to mix a mic with an internal pickup, stick the mic on a stand in front of the guitar. Keep it simple. There's my rant.

[Gordon Bellerose]

Bob.
I hear you about the under the saddle pickup strip. That has been my thought also.

The dead battery thing is always a concern. I own a Seagull acoustic with a built in pickup and an external control plate in the side of the guitar.
I've played hundreds of times and it has never given me a moments grief, as long as I changed the battery!
I do prefer to have the battery compartment available from the outside too, if possible.

Thanks for the info about the other brands. I will look them up as part of my research.

[David King]

There are systems that are powered by a supercap instead of a battery. It takes 30 seconds to recharge and gives you a couple of days of playing.

[Mark Swanson]

Those rechargable systems are quite cool, Elderly has about the best price I have found.
It seems to me that people who don't have a lot of experience with the under-saddle pickups are also the ones who feel that they take from the tone, or don't work well. I have installed tons of them and have a lot of faith in them, when they are installed right they are very reliable. I am not a fan of cutting a hole in the side, and I like the soundhole control, or no controls at all- I have none on my own guitars and wouldn't use them if I did. I just set the controls at the board or let the sound guy worry about it.
Most people that use the K & K systems do not use a preamp with them, and if you know about electronics and the theory behind these pickups, you know that you need one no matter what. And the closer the preamp to the pickup the better- that's why they are inside, and not in a box on the floor or otherwise. The pickups need a high gain boost, and when the preamp is further from the pickup then the preamp will also amplify the noise that the cable itself generates, and the cable becomes microphonic. Another thing I don't like about the soundboard contact pickups is how they work- they seem to pick up any thing that happens on the top, like taps and fingernoises, and rubbing of the hands or tap of the pick comes through loudly, I find them very irritating to use. To each his own. for me I get very good results from undersaddle pickups and cannot hear any difference in tone when they are installed.

[David King]

In a perfect world every guitar player would sit still and own a $1500 small capsule condenser mic. Or audiences would have to shut up and listen. For the average noisy bar gig an undersaddle pickup gets the job done. Everything is a compromise but since no one is really listening anyway it hardly matters.

[Gordon Bellerose]

I looked at my Seagull for the first time. I've owned it for 15 years, and never had a really good look inside. Never had to, it has always performed flawlessly.
I know. I feel shame.
It has an under saddle pickup and sounds great, both acoustically, and plugged in.
So, I have to disagree with myself on that.

I think I might go with an Baggs Element active system. Not too much money and reviews are good.

Mark, you seem to have quite a bit of experience with these. Can you give me a heads up on any installation issues I may run in to?

[Mark Swanson]

Not really, it's all pretty straightforward stuff. Take care in drilling the large 1/2" hole for the end pin jack, and make sure that your saddle slot is dead flat all the way across, and your saddle itself is flat on the bottom to match.
Another thing that really helps with these pickups is to cut your saddle slot with a little bit of an angle leaning back toward the bridge pins. My bridge making jig has that angle built in and use it if I use a pickup or not- it has many benefits, but the benefit for the under saddle pickups is that the angled slot helps give really good saddle-to-pickup contact. It prevents the saddle tipping forward from the break angle. In a guitar with a badly fitting saddle or a sloppy saddle slot this tipping can cause the saddle to rock right off the pickup and make weak or no sound. The angle gives great contact, forcing the saddle down hard to the pickup, right where you want it.
The Element is a good system, follow the instructions for installing and you'll be fine.

[Gordon Bellerose]

How big an angle do you suggest?
2 or 3 degrees?
If the saddle is on an angle, does it affect intonation?
Do you have to compensate slightly for the angle when routing the saddle slot?

[Mark Swanson]

How big an angle do you suggest?
2 or 3 degrees?
If the saddle is on an angle, does it affect intonation?
Do you have to compensate slightly for the angle when routing the saddle slot?

You don't need much angle at all. If you draw a side view of the break angle over your saddle, and then bisect it, you can figure it out that way.
The lower the action, the less compensation you need to correct for intonation adjustments. The higher the action, the more you need, and an angled saddle works with you in that way. So the answer is no, done correctly it doesn't affect the intonation adjustment, but helps it.
the last question isn't clear to me...

[Gordon Bellerose]

How big an angle do you suggest?
2 or 3 degrees?
If the saddle is on an angle, does it affect intonation?
Do you have to compensate slightly for the angle when routing the saddle slot?

You don't need much angle at all. If you draw a side view of the break angle over your saddle, and then bisect it, you can figure it out that way.
The lower the action, the less compensation you need to correct for intonation adjustments. The higher the action, the more you need, and an angled saddle works with you in that way. So the answer is no, done correctly it doesn't affect the intonation adjustment, but helps it.
the last question isn't clear to me...

What I mean by that question, is when you rout the slot do you have to move it slightly forward, to compensate for the saddle leaning backward?
If the saddle is on an angle, then the top edge of it moves away from the neck. The taller the saddle, the more it moves.

[Mark Swanson]

It isn't that big of a change, and just figure it in when you place the bridge. And as I said, the higher your action the more it moves back, which helps the intonation.

[Mark Wybierala]

I like the Fishman Matrix Infinity. Yes, its an undersaddle piezo but I've had good results and happy clients. You get a preamp with a volume and tone that sorta hides in the sound hole and the only mod to the guitar is an end-pin output jack. For the money, its a good deal.

[Craig Bumgarner]

I play gypsy jazz with a Selmer steel string and a stiff pick. It is a style that asks a lot of a pickup. I've tried dozens of pickup and microphone arrangements. The best I've found is AKG C411-PP condenser contact mic (into an Acoustic Image Corus amp). Simple, light, acoustic sounding, very high feed back threshold, excellent dynamic range, handles solos and driving rhythms equally well. No pre-amp needed. I EQ it flat and do not need a volume control on the guitar as the dynamic range allows the volume to be throttled just like an acoustic guitar. I play 50-60 amplified gigs a year, from just barely amplified gigs to large halls with 500 people. I have yet to find a situation this pickup does not handle well. The PP version requires phantom power, but eliminates the battery box. Under $200. The PP version can be hard to find, try B&H Photo in NYC.