Continue to build or hang it up?

[Nelson Palen]

Hi guys and gals. I haven’t posted a whole lot lately while taking a break from building after 95 archtops in the last dozen years. I’ve developed some health issues between the sawdust and lacquer fumes and need to decide how to proceed. I think the nitro lacquer is the main culprit as I have always hung the guitars in the basement workshop while curing. I spray in the garage with a good respirator and industrial filter/exhaust system but seem to have developed a hyper sensitivity to the lacquer from the off gassing during the minimum four weeks of curing.
I know you will tell me that letting the lacquer cure in the workshop is not a good idea and hindsight agrees with you. I could never smell the lacquer after letting the guitar hang overnight in the garage and then curing in the basement so I thought I was being safe.
With that said, my current concern is where to go from here. My dealer has done an awesome job of selling all of the Palen Archtops not only here in the States but various places around the globe also. I don’t want to let him down as he continues to book orders for my archtops but having to weigh that against the health issues.
Should I just quit building and chalk it all up to experience? Should I wait a year or so and see if the health improves? Should I find an apprentice to train and use an offsite location for curing the lacquer? Should I look for someone “out there” who would be willing to build the Palen Archtops under license and, if so, should I sell my CNC router, fixtures, tooling and hand finishing processes to that person or company?
I’m a 67 year young retired design engineer with time on my hands so keeping the build in-house makes sense but not at the expense of further risking my health. The downside is that I’ve learned so much and hate to see the knowledge go to waste. I sincerely appreciate any and all suggestions from you folks who I’ve learned from and enjoyed here on the forum over the years.

Nelson Palen

[Bob Gramann]

You could try water base. It's not nitro but you can get a good job. I use Target EM6000 and get good results.

[Jason Rodgers]

I suppose it depends on the severity of your sensitivity to the various "pollutions," but I'd hate to see anyone hang it up for these reasons, unless it was life threatening, I suppose (it's not, is it?).

While it might be expensive to upgrade dust collection and air filtration, wood dust contact can be minimized. There is a great article by Robbie O'brien in the latest copy of AL about dust collection and mask use, specifically about reducing exposure for health reasons.

As for the finishing, yeah, keep it outa there. But if finishing with nitro at all is a problem (and it'll likely only get worse), the next step would be to change products. Of course, there will be a big learning curve, but there are a lot of resources and experienced folks out there who could help. Another option is to contract out the finishing. If I remember correctly, in the Portland area, Kerry Char used to do cat poly finishes for people. I think Mike Doolin used him for a few years before he retired. There's a guy on the OLF who does the same; is his name White?

If you have the customers, and more importantly the continued desire to build and deliver to those customers, then I think you can find a way. Your situation is definitely cautionary, though. Back in November, after spending most of a Sunday in the shop, I developed a full body rash that took a round of prednison to knock down. I had maple, cherry, and plywood dust all over, and it really freaked me out. I've really been diligent about dust collection since, and it may not have been the dust exposure that did this (allergy testing revealed nothing), but it's good to remember that ALL wood dust is considered an irritant, and many domestic and seemingly benign woods are considered sensitizers (not just oily exotics).

Good luck!

[Michael Lewis]

Yes, better dust control, and change finishes to something you can handle safely and gives a good result.

I have been dabbling with Epiphanes clear gloss varnish which can be sprayed or brushed with very acceptable results. No lacquer thinner involved, but turpentine, mineral spirits, or naphtha is used as thinner and clean up. You still need good ventilation and a separation of the fumes released and the air you breathe. The thing about this varnish is it doesn't keep gassing off thinner like lacquer does. A couple days and it's over, and the thinner is less toxic than the lacquer thinners.

There are things in water based finishes you don't want to breathe too, so just switching to KTM or Target isn't a total answer. You need to try some of these finishes and see for yourself which might work for you best.

The reason you didn't smell lacquer a day or so after spraying it is your olfactories were overloaded with the stuff and consequently desensitized to the smell. Sort of like a smoker doesn't smell his or her own smoke, which I think is why some of them think non smokers are just too sensitive about a nothing issue.

[Alan Carruth]

I've used oil varnishes or French polish for years due to sensitivity to lacquer fumes. My older brother got a 4F draft deferment due to kidney damage from model airplane dope, which is just lacquer with banana oil as a plasticizer. Nasty stuff. A dust mask does nothing to keep out the fumes, of course.

One of my students just rubbed up an archtop finished with Sutherland-Welles 'Mudoch's Ure-Alkyd 500 Floor Finish'. It's an oil-resin varnish based on tung oil, that uses a citrus solvent. It was brushed on, straight out of the can, and came out very nicely. Due to the tung oil it had a sort of 'eggshell' surface, but rubbed up to a good gloss. Eight coats ended up quite thin, with no 'witness line' problems after polishing, and it seems almost as hard as nitro. I think it has greater depth than nitro, and should not have the long-term degrade problems that nitro has. Its very clear, and, if anything, a little lighter than nitro, although not as white as some finishes: to me it's just right for maple.

[Michael Lewis]

One aspect to finishing everyone probably knows is the better you prepare the surfaces the better your finish job will be. Too many folks just pile on more finish over a less than perfect surface to the point it can be leveled and buffed. It takes far less finish material if your surface is smooth and defect free. Leave no gaps or irregularities in the surfaces and you can get away with minimal finish. Rub on, wipe on, brush on, spray, or whatever you can come up with will look good with less finishing work and material. Most of the work is in the preparation, not the finishing.

This should help to minimize your exposure to the finishing materials.

[Barry Daniels]

I have a strong exhaust fan that I use during spraying but a weak fan that I use during the extended cure process. The weak fan does not need to be explosion proof. Any bathroom vent fan would work fine. You just need to move a little air to keep the negative pressure to prevent infiltration into your living spaces. They do the same type of thing to remove radon gas from basements.

Another viable option would be to farm your finishing out to one of the finishing pros. This would also give you more time for the building process.

[Andy Birko]

If it's truly that the nitro fumes are the issue, simply look for a finish that's not going to bother you. Nitro is a great finish and all but there are other options out there that are as good or better than nitro. Varnish is a fantastic finish and in my opinion, polyester is the bomb.

As far as dust goes, if you scour craigslist, you can find cyclone dust collectors and plumb your shop up for under $1k - I just did so and it knocked my airborne dust down a lot.

Second, make yourself a whole shop air cleaner with the intake near the floor and the exhaust by the ceiling. That also will help clean up your shop.

[Nelson Palen]

Hey guys,
I’m a bit overwhelmed by all the replies including well wishes and advice. This is a tough life decision for me as I’m now retired with time on my hands. The majority of the archtops were built while I was still working the full time day job. The irony is that the hours were tough at times but I felt it was worth it as it would give me something to do in retirement. My wife, who has been very supportive of my hobby, thinks it would be a good idea if I had something to do also. Imagine that. 
I thought it interesting that several of you wondered if I had lost the passion to build. I must have left that impression unintentionally. But, yes, the excitement after building several dozen does subside a bit compared to the totally giddy enthusiasm felt at the very start back in the previous century.
There seems to be a consensus that outsourcing the finishing should be considered. I’ve often considered this but my concern has been the shipping costs as well as the packaging and chance for damage. I do however understand the upside of outsourcing. I had a good experience with Barry Daniels doing most of the neck building for me on the first couple dozen or so archtops. That involved shipping the semi-finished blanks to Houston and back but we had no problems and the workmanship was impeccable.
Thanks again and look forward to even more input. I even appreciate all the good natured humor.
Nelson

[Chris Richards]

I think that you should definitely carry on building and finishing, just find a safer way to do it. My Dad's shed/workshop was his kingdom and when he retired he gave up almost everything, he was more of a metal worker and was always working on a project on his lathe or milling machine mainly making clocks or steam engines. Once he gave up he seemed to lose the skill and all the accuracy went out of his work. Now he doesn't leave the house to even look in his shed, it's such a shame.

[AL Lombardo]

I have to agree with Chris also. My dad is now 95. He retired at 71 and could not stop. He decided to sell tools at a local weekend market. From there went on to musical instruments. He only stopped 3 yrs ago when he was losing the ability to drive safely and process thought quickly. Today he sits in the house.. very bored and just waiting as he puts it. Not great to see that.

[Chris Walsh]

Nelson...sorry to hear of your dilemma. I would consider subbing out your finishing if you and your customers desire nitro as a finish. Actually, the fella I bought my pin router from in MA, who will remain nameless, has/or had (at the time) a laid off motorcycle or car finisher....after some training...finish his guitars...and they look great! Whoever that person is can do all the tedious sanding too!! It may cut into your profit margin a bit...but...you still get to remain active and enjoy what you do ...without all the health related issues. Besides, most of the hutzpah is in crafting and all the giddy in buffing and stringing these things up!! Finishing is cool...but if I could get someone to do all the grunt work without robbing the bank...I'd be signing up!

PS oh...and find someone reasonably local so you can do all the transporting for piece of mind....there are plenty of talented people out there...

[Art Davila]

You mentioned getting an apprentice, you could hire one,
and get a small climate controlled storage unit in your area.
Storing the guitars off site while the finish cures.
I know that building and finishing in our homes is the only way many of us could afford to start, but if you can afford to incur the expense of the off site storage and the apprentice, you could continue, with your passion and start training an employee who might keep the business going after you decide to really and truly retire.

Ps if you do get an apprentice you might get somebody with auto painting experience to limit the learning curve.

[Simon Magennis]

@ Nelson. I am curious as to what decision you eventually came to.

Given that you had built up a market and a distribution system, it seems a shame to let that die off. While many people make instruments cracking the sales end is a major achievement.

The first thought that struck is to outsource the finish completely. This has a long tradition in the instrument making business. This eliminates all the issues with nitro and specialists can do a damn good job. It eats a bit of the profit margin but also saves a good bit of time as well as eliminating the health issue. If the finisher is some distance away then working out the best shipping methods/batches could make a difference to costs. Once a good finisher is located, beefing up dust control in your workshop is in order. Room air filters as well as dust removal at source (including a sanding table) seems to be the way to go. Loads of discussions here about it.

Outsourcing in general. Again nothing to stop you outsourcing the most boring and dustiest bits of the job. Tops and backs can be machine routed outside and then fine tuned by you before assembly. Its a balance between labour saving and shipping. Tops and backs stack well so shipping one or a dozen is not hugely different in cost. You control the wood supply, quality, and the final details of tuning the top. The biggest cost is probably setting up a cnc machine. Maybe you could find someone local who would do the cnc for you as a trade for you cnc router? Effectively you help set someone else up in business in return for getting work done?

Let us know what you decided/decide.