Jointing with a Shooting Board; Plane or Sander?

[Tom Martin]

For those that use a shooting board to joint: How many use a plane vs. a sander approach? The reason I ask is that I noticed LV has started selling a shooting sander. I saw some comments from folks that do veneer work, but was wondering about guitar tops and backs as I'm planning my first build. Any merits or demerits are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Murray MacLeod]

Being able to get a perfect soundboard joint with a sharp plane is an essential skill IMO for anybody constructing a guitar. Sanding a joint in material as thin as that is not the way forward.

That said, I do not buy the much touted meme that sanded joints are always inherently inferior to planed joints (leastways not in thicker, wider material). There is a lot of *anecdotal* evidence around but AFAIK there has never been any definitive testing done. So I will continue to sand (or I should say LAP) my headstock scarf joints, just like Bill Cumpiano does.

But for soundboards, unquestionably, a sharp plane is the tool of choice.

[Bob Gramann]

+1 for the plane.

[Mario Proulx]

I do not buy the much touted meme that sanded joints are always inherently inferior to planed joints (leastways not in thicker, wider material). There is a lot of *anecdotal* evidence around but AFAIK there has never been any definitive testing done

Definitive testing was, indeed, done. In the days when aircraft were constructed using a lot of wood, including one very important item, the propeller, the US military did extensive research and put forth the information in a book, which I have a copy of, but all our books are in storage at this time and I can't even remember the title for to search to see if it is online by now. But rest assured that they insisted on freshly planed joints, not sanded or "toothed"(epoxy being the only exception, and in fact requires a toothed surface).

[Mario Proulx]

Here's a similar book from the era, from the US Department Of Agriculture, not the military....

http://books.google.ca/books?id=ym7VAAA ... navlinks_s

[Alan Carruth]

I was told that the testing was done by the US Forest Products Lab (USDA) at the behest of the military in WW II. The take-away was:
1) Planing is better than sanding, and
2) glue within 15 minutes of dressing the joint.

Yes, sanded joints and longer waits can be 'strong enough', but it's not that much harder hard to get the best possible joint, so why not just do it?

[Mario Proulx]

Exactly!

[Murray MacLeod]

Now I am really getting worried ... only one instrument under my belt so far ...and on that one I sanded the underside of the soundboard and the interior of the back ...the top (glued surface) of the soundboard braces and the back braces ...the top ( glued surface ) of the kerfed lining (both top and back) ...in fact the only two planed glue joints were the soundboard and the back center seams.

It seems to be holding together at the moment ...but realistically ...how long have I got before the sanded glue joints fail ?

[Mario Proulx]

You'll be fine. Millions of guitars are built in factories just that way.

Now, on the next one(nobody EVER builds just one... <g>), right before gluing the braces in place, scrape the mating surfaces of both the brace and the top/back with a fresh single-edge razor blade. A scraped surface is the same as a planed one, and you'll also ensure that you have a very fresh surface. Necessary? Likely not, but it only takes a few seconds to accomplish a simple task that will give you the best possible results and one-up the factories.

[Murray MacLeod]

I like the way you think Mario ... and as it happens there is now a source in the UK for these single edged razor blades .. so yes ... will do.

[Brad Heinzen]

Yeah, stick with the plane and the shooting board. Once you get it figured out, it's too fast and easy to do it any other way. I also use a shooting board for planing braces, free-handing any required radius into the braces with a block plane. If this sounds difficult, rest assured, it's no harder than getting a perfectly tight top or back joint once you're used to doing it.

[Mario Proulx]

free-handing any required radius into the braces with a block plane. If this sounds difficult, rest assured, it's no harder than getting a perfectly tight top or back joint

Yup... Here's how I radius my braces...

http://youtu.be/C2Qeh9vjrck

[Jason Rodgers]

Awesome sauce.

[Alan Carruth]

At risk of re-starting an old discussion, I use a shim on the sole of the plane to control the arc when I plane braces to the radius. It doesn't take any longer than free handing them in practice, and I know I've got a uniform arc. As one fellow says, the point of using jigs is that you can have a fight with your wife and still go out the shop and do your best work.

[Gilbert Fredrickson]

I use an ancient #5 Stanley.

[Brad Heinzen]

I plane my braces pretty much the same way Mario does. In my case, free-handing the braces works well because most of them aren't constantly cambered, and some are only partially radiused. I build mostly CG's with a dished lower bout, and some of the braces climb up out of the dished area.

I also enjoy developing manual skills to the point where you can just grab a tool, and go for it, no jigs required. That's just a personal preference, of course.