Question about changes to my guitar before I pull every thing out

[Art Davila]

I bought a Schecter guitar, because I liked the feel and the loocks, but did not like the EMG pickups.
So I knew from the start I would swap out the pickups and re configure the controls a bit.

[David King]

I'll ask "do you need the master volume and tone or don't you?"
Having three tones will definitely confuse things. That said it's so much easier to try out what you have in mind and see if it works for you. Rewiring later on is a lot less trouble than trying to surmise what results could be ahead of time. There are simply too many unknowns.
Personally I'd find it way more complicated than it needs to be.
Have you considered a volume pedal?

[Art Davila]

Sorry if i was unclear.

What I want to end up with is one master volume, and 2 tones (one for each pickup)
with the pot used for the tone being stacked pots.
Stacked pots so I can also have individual volume for each pick up,
which would not be adjusted very often, just when balancing the 2 pickups
when both are active to blend the 2 tones together.
Most of the time I would use the master volume.

The reason I did not just jump in and putz around is there is alot of experiance here, and I was hoping someone might have some insight as to the validity of the statement that the circuit would muddy up the tone.

[Mark Swanson]

I am not sure if you know how the two individual stacked controls will work. be aware that they work this way- if you set the tone control at a mid-point setting, and then switch that control to volume mode, the tone control will NOT keep that mid-point setting but will switch to full on when you go to the volume side of the pot. The same happens in reverse, if you go to the tone side of the pot the volume will go to full on, and not remain at some middle point. In other words, the pots do NOT "remember" settings when you switch from volume and tone. You need to know that, an I am not so sure that you will be able to blend your tones the way you think. I am with David, much too complicated.

[Steve Benford]

I am not sure if you know how the two individual stacked controls will work. be aware that they work this way- if you set the tone control at a mid-point setting, and then switch that control to volume mode, the tone control will NOT keep that mid-point setting but will switch to full on when you go to the volume side of the pot. The same happens in reverse, if you go to the tone side of the pot the volume will go to full on, and not remain at some middle point. In other words, the pots do NOT "remember" settings when you switch from volume and tone. You need to know that, an I am not so sure that you will be able to blend your tones the way you think. I am with David, much too complicated.

Mark, I think he means concentric pots, which would do what he wants. I think he's going for a Les Paul wiring with an additional master volume. Were you thinking he might be using a Push/Pull pot and trying to select volume or tone with the single pot?

Art, is that correct? Did you mean concentric pots (1 pot with 2 individual dials. Like alot of active basses have?) Make sure you use 500k pots. If you go 250k with your humbuckers it will roll off some highs and "muddy" things up.

STEVE

[David King]

Why not just use a 500K or 1 meg blend pot? (Not sure the latter exists domestically but it might be one you could assemble from a 500K blend pot and a couple of 1M pots of the same type). Blend pots are basically two volume pots that work in opposite direction with half of each trace being resistive. When the pot is centered both volumes are on full with 250k resistance to ground. Essentially like using two 250k volume pots.

I'd use 500k dual concentric volume pots and turn the two knobs together when you want a master volume. It's easy to get a friction fit using a rubber washer between the knobs to maintain your relative settings. You might need a kill switch to silence the guitar completely while keeping the pickup's balance setting.

[Art Davila]

Steve
Yes, that is exactly what I meant.
I used the word concentric in another forum and they said stacked pot
was the more frequent used term so sorry for the confusing post.

And yes I did want the gibson 4 knob control with the added master volume, with out drilling new holes.

[Art Davila]

Mark thank you for that explaination. I would have hated the results of the stacked pots.

David thanx for the suggestion but I want 2 tones and only have the 3 holes, and don't want to drill another hole.

[David King]

Art, Most basses are set up this way too. A master volume, a blend and a single tone but you could easily have 2 tones on that dual concentric (that is the technically correct term) in the third hole.
You can also have a stacked/ concentric volume and blend control and then have each tone in it's own hole if you wanted to. MEC makes and sells those 3 gang pots.
Here's the pot I would recommend for the stacked tone controls: http://www.allparts.com/EP-4586-000-CTS ... _1444.html
Here's what I would recommend for the blend: http://www.allparts.com/EP-0386-000-500 ... _1316.html
I'd probably go 1 meg on the master volume if the taper works for you.

Mark, I'm really mystified and intrigued about what sort of pot you might be referring to. I've never come across such an animal but it might have it's uses.

[Mark Swanson]

David, I was just talking about a standard push/pull pot, and how it would work if you have one position set to control volume, and the other set to control tone. that kind of pot will jump to full on when you change the up or down setting, and it'll only control the one setting at a time. I just wanted to remind Art that is how these types would work.

[David King]

Hah! I guess that's a "guitar thing", thanks. Yeah, I don't see how that would help much here but I can see where on a one pot guitar you might want to choose between tone and volume given the situation.

[Art Davila]

Thank you for the input, I have 2 - 500k concentric pots on order and have made a cardboard template to mimic the interior of the control cavity and the placement of the holes so I can wire up as neatly as possible instead of trying to get it done in the control cavity which is tight.

I have worked on LP's and Strat types but this seems a bit to small for me to do it in the cavity, more nimble fingers might not have a problem, but I dont want to mess up the finish or just get bad solder joint,

David Why do you suggest the 1 meg value for the master volume?

[David King]

Art,
as you probably know, every pot has a path to ground which will bleed away some signal and often more of the high frequencies hence when you have three paths to ground the effect can be quite noticeable.
The formula is 1/(1/R1+1/R2+1/R3) The blend pot has two paths of 250K each or a total of 125K, add in a third pot that's 1m and your total load becomes 111.1k. A 500k master volume pot would increase the load to 100k. That's probably not a significant improvement so stick with a 500K if it's what you have.

[Art Davila]

Ok got another recomendation from another forum but would the master volume still be better at 1 meg?
I can order it too here is the latest design.

In the image each pickup has a volume and tone control, which would be concentric pots, and the master volume would be standard type pot

[David King]

Art,
If all your volumes are 1Meg then the total load is 333K.
If you have three 500K volumes it drops to 167K.
Whether you'll be able to hear a difference between the two is unknowable, you'll just have to try it.

[Art Davila]

Ok I guess I will have to just order 2 of each and see what sounds best,
Thanks for all the input.