Cracked neck heel on parlor guitar

[Mark Langner]

A friend recently got an old Eastman parlor guitar with a problem. He wants to make it playable as a camping or "beater" guitar, without a lot of trouble or expense. We're looking for suggestions on how best to approach this repair.

Just an impression that the crack seems to go all the way through whatever dovetail this guitar has. I have not worked much on flat-top instruments, but it almost feels as if the neck is only held on by the fingerboard extension.

.

It appears that someone tried to fix this problem once by running a dowel through the heel... and in fact, my first thought had been to run a bolt through the same way.

The crack will close mostly under clamping pressure, but I don't think forcing glue in the crack and clamping will provide enough strength. It also looks as if someone started to saw the heel off at the top of the crack with a fine-kerf saw...

Suggestions?

[Mark Swanson]

It's cracked all the way through. Remove the neck, fix it right and then reset the neck. It isn't as hard as you may think and you are a good builder Mark so go for the right fix! This little guitar is worth it, and in fact it deserves more than "beater- campfire" rank, those are nice guitars.
I would bet that the top section of the neck is already loose and the only part you'll have to steam out is the lower part of the dovetail, an easy job when the rest of the neck is out of the way.

[Peter Wilcox]

I have very minimal experience in these matters, so take my suggestions with a large grain of salt. I recently repaired a guitar with a similar problem. Not a great cosmetic job, but it worked well for a beater guitar.
http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1681
Since someone already tried the repair with a dowel, you could drill it out and continue the hole to just below the fretboard, and put in a nice hardwood dowel.

But like Mark, I too would suggest doing it right if you have the time and expertise.

[Mark Langner]

It's cracked all the way through. Remove the neck, fix it right and then reset the neck. It isn't as hard as you may think and you are a good builder Mark so go for the right fix! This little guitar is worth it, and in fact it deserves more than "beater- campfire" rank, those are nice guitars.
I would bet that the top section of the neck is already loose and the only part you'll have to steam out is the lower part of the dovetail, an easy job when the rest of the neck is out of the way.

Thanks, Mark, especially for the comment about the guitar being more than a beater. We will take that into consideration, and go for a more proper fix. I have reset several necks on my own instruments, for various reasons (cracked neck blocks, bad dovetail joints, etc), and I wouldn't anticipate problems getting neck out. That said, I am not sure what a "right" fix would be for this crack. Will you elaborate?

[Mark Swanson]

I would just get the two pieces out and glue them back together, making sure of a really good glue joint. If there are gaps in it from other failed repairs and so on then I would use good epoxy for this or just get a good fit for wood glue.
Then clean out the dovetail and make sure when you reset that you have good contact all along each side of the dovetail joint. Glue her back up, and you should be fine.
This is better than just re-gluing the break back together while the neck is in place, because if you do that the dovetail will still be loose. You gain a lot of strength from having the whole dovetail glued in properly, and you might be able to get the break to close up but you won't get a good joint in the dovetail without taking it apart.

[Steve Senseney]

If the joint is too dirty or looks like it will not be a good fit, cut out the bad area with a saw kerf (if it is small enough)and fill with a slip of wood to fill the space, or if needed, plane each surface flat to get a bigger piece of wood in place.

The dowel which has been placed makes all of this a little more complicated. When it is apart, you can judge which will be the best choice. It may require a little more thinking because of the dowel.

[Mark Langner]

Thanks, everyone. I'll report back as things progress.

[Mark Langner]

OK - After my last post, my friend went on a lengthy trip overseas and I had to put my shop in storage for several months while I finished a new space for it.

Finally back in business, and we got together to remove the neck. Surprise: No Dovetail.

So I'm looking for some advice:

What kind of neck joint is this? How can we get the remaining part of the heel out of the cavity?

[Steve Senseney]

More steam and time.

Now that the joint is opened, can you figure what kind of glue was used?

[Mark Langner]

Looks like hide glue to me, brown shiny "crystals" instead of typical titebond "ooze-out".

Also, we did not use steam - the front part of the heel was already completely separated from the "mortise". We used a heat lamp on the fretboard extension and a sharpened spatula to separate the fretboard from the body.

We were concerned that heat applied around the remaining heel might separate the sides from the neck block as well - Do we need to worry about that? And if we use steam, where? there is no cavity as there would be with a dovetail...

[Mark Swanson]

You need moisture AND heat to release hide glue. So get it wet, and work the water down in the glue joint with a knife of thin metal. Keep the water out of the side seams and find a way to get some heat to the glue joint.

[Michael Lewis]

This looks like a violin style neck joint, where the heel is glued on all three sides and to the button on the back. It is often referred to as a dovetail but in truth is not. The method for removing a violin neck that is firmly glued is to saw along side the heel with a razor saw, also just above the button, and "break it out"! When the neck is refitted a veneer is used as a spacer to fill the saw kerf.

Is there a heel cap or does the back form a 'button' over the back of the heel?

If the worst happens you can make a new neck.