FP without oil

[Kary Karahadian]

I've been reading of builders not using pumice and oil when they French polish. I get the no pumice part, epoxy or some such for pore filling, but how does one FP without any oil ( I try to use as little as possible)? My muneca would stick like fly paper.

[Chuck Tweedy]

With FP, I suggest you do what works for you.
Trying what you read works for other people is fine. If it works. If it does not, don't do it.

I'm an FP pragmatist. If you can get it to work, then you are there - stay there.

And what is wrong with a little oil anyway?!?

[Kary Karahadian]

I agree Chuck. I am happy with my technique, just curious. Not sure how it can be done without at least a bit of oil.

[Steve Senseney]

I use oil. Not a lot. Just the right amount at the right time.

[Craig Bumgarner]

I use oil. Not a lot. Just the right amount at the right time.

Right, just a little. Too much makes the finish slow to harden up and soft. I used to drop oil on the rubber, now I dip my fingertip in the upturn bottle cap and check the amount I've picked up, then wipe it on the surface of the rubber, probably cuts my oil quantity in half and works just as well.

[Waddy Thomson]

I use a bit of oil, and there is nothing bad about it if you spirit off after every body session. Spiriting levels the surface, and removes the oil. No oil when glazing. I have found that I don't have to put oil every time I load my muneca. Sometimes I can go several loads without adding oil. When I feel like it's beginning to drag too much I add a half drop or something like that.

[Bryan Bear]

I do it like Craig describes and like Waddy, I don't apply oil very often.

Be careful taking advice from Chuck about FP he has been known to use a pneumatic fad <gasps>

[Chuck Tweedy]

Guess I'm going to have to change my identity to shake that one.

By the way - Waddy might claim, for sake of impressing people, that he does PF without oil because he glazes with none (as do I).
I think the claims are sometimes skewed by exploiting the convoluted process. (how's that for a good sentence!)

As a matter of fact, I can claim that I do FP with no oil as well:
- I spray the "build"
- I sand flush
- I glaze with no oil

BINGO - FP with no oil

[Bryan Bear]

BINGO - FP with no oil

And you trade a sore shoulder for a slightly tired trigger finger to boot <G>

[Waddy Thomson]

I believe, if you read my post, I didn't say I don't use oil. I said if you do, spiriting off after bodying sessions takes it off. Which is what I do. I did say I don't use it for glazing. Actually, I think a lot of folks do what you do, but a traditionalist would be turning over in his grave, screaming that it wasn't French Polish to spray the body build up of the finish. Another way is to use a mix of shellac solution about half and half with Acetone, and build that way. It goes on wet, dries immediately, then you can easily polish it out with glazing strokes. I did it once when I was in a hurry. Bodying took a few hours. Glazing a few more. Done. However, I felt like I cheated!

[Chuck Tweedy]

but a traditionalist would be turning over in his grave, screaming that it wasn't French Polish to spray the body build up of the finish.

Yea, I get a lot of that from the "purists" around here. Like Baby Bear up there.

Actually, I don't do a lot of FP any more. Now I finish with < > NC lacquer.

[Jason Rodgers]

Another way is to use a mix of shellac solution about half and half with Acetone, and build that way. It goes on wet, dries immediately, then you can easily polish it out with glazing strokes. I did it once when I was in a hurry. Bodying took a few hours. Glazing a few more. Done. However, I felt like I cheated!

Waddy, isn't this Cindy Burton's method? If you can get the same results, it doesn't sound like cheating to me!

[Waddy Thomson]

It's a bit hard on the nostrils. I don't spray because I don't have a booth, and I keep my shop regulated, so there isn't much air transfer. I hate wearing a respirator. I French polish with 190 proof Grain Alcohol.

[Mario Proulx]

Some of us put the oil in the shellac mix, and don't use any on the pad/fad. Does that count as "FP without oil"?

[Chuck Tweedy]

no

[Tom Harper]

I French polish without oil. You have to pay more attention to pressure/speed and wetness than when you use oil. The alcohol more or less becomes the lubricant. I don't use oil because 1) I found that oil can cause blotches in cedar tops, and 2) I learned to French polish from Cyndy Burton who does not use oil. Oilless seems to harden a faster and for me is more predictable.

I believe Brian Burns is the instigator of acetone/shellac mix. At least that's who first told me about it. It's fast, but man, the fumes can be bad unless you are set up for it. Here is some info from a MSDS for acetone:

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of
skin contact (permeator).
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.
TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Classified Reproductive system/toxin/female,
Reproductive system/toxin/male [SUSPECTED]. The substance is toxic to central nervous system (CNS). The substance may
be toxic to kidneys, the reproductive system, liver, skin. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target
organs damage.

Another trick I picked up from Brian was the use of micro fiber cloth for the pad. I initially used Mystic Maid cleaning cloth material, but my source mystically disappeared so now I get ones that look like they have the right knap (no obvious pattern, not too tall or fluffy) at auto parts stores or Harbor Fright. They really seem to keep the flotsam and jetsam out of the finish as you work.

EDIT: p.s. Chuck, is that sentence copyrighted?

[Barry Daniels]

Acetone is sort of harsh and its usage should be minimized, but one unnamed group of people use it regularly to remove their nail polish.

[Chuck Tweedy]

yes

[Bryan Bear]

Two things fro the record:

1) During story time, I seem to be placed in the role of PAPA Bear.
2) I am as much a heretic as the next guy, I just don't own a pneumatic fad. I use a patented "make it up as you go along" method of "french Polish" that would make the purists roll their eyes. I never even measured a pound cut of anything. . .

[Chuck Tweedy]

If you had a "fro" your picture would be even better!