Alternative to French Polish

[Danny Seamon]

I have been using French Polish for my guitars and I love everything except the ease that is gets scratched on the tops. I am building in my attached garage and don't have a spray booth so I am concerned about spraying lacquer or varnish. Does anyone currently use Sam Maloof's Finish or Vermont Natural Coatings Poly Whey or other wipe on finish with good results? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the input.

Danny

[Waddy Thomson]

I have used Tru-Oil with good results. May not be much more durable than shellac, but is probably less perspiration sensitive. Poly Whey is on my list of finishes to try. I know several guys who are using it and like it.

[Dave Weir]

I only make solid bodies, but I use Watco Danish oil and Minwax Tung Oil Finish. Both have varnish or something that makes a hard film, but it's pretty thin. Once you get over the misleading names, (Tung Oil Finish apparently contains no tung oil) and the fact that you get them at Home Depot, they work fine. I'm also in a little home shop with a lot of other things going on. Not an ideal environment. I've also used the Minwax wipe on poly. It is a little thicker and a little more protection. I would think the products you refer to are pretty much the same thing with a fancy label, or maybe a little better quality control, so they should be fine. I would use more than three coats.

[Bryan Bear]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you so I don't have much advice. As Waddy said, poly whey is getting some attention. From instrument makers; I haven't tried it yet, but I hear promising things about it. You can also brush lacquer and get good results if you have good sanding technique. For me, the smell is the limiting factor with my shop I. The basement. Perhaps an attached garage would be acceptable.

[Chuck Tweedy]

What French polishing with U-Beaut Hard Shellac?
I've wondered about that.

Once you've got your FP chops, it's hard to go back to a less-Zen method.

[Waddy Thomson]

I have a friend who is a very good classical guitar builder, and he's been using U-Beaut for a bit now and really loves it. Much more durable than plain shellac. After it cross links in two weeks, it is pretty impervious to most harmful liquids. The only issue I see with it is that it, likely, does not repair as an old finish like old shellac, since it will no longer be dissolved in alcohol.

[Dave Weir]

I need to edit what I posted before about the wipe on poly. I would NOT use more than 3 coats. Maybe I'm just too impatient, but the forth coat never dries before I touch it.

[Bryan Bear]

What about waxed shellac? I saw a video done by a guy from another forum where he claims that you don't need to dewax your shellac and the finish is much more durable. Apparently, gym and ballroom floors were all waxed shellac up 'til about the 60s and held up to more abuse than a guitar is likely to see. Thoughts?

[Chuck Tweedy]

Waxy shellac is not any more durable than regular de-waxed.
The custodial staff at highschools in the 50's just had to re-finish the floors A LOT more than they do now.

[Bryan Bear]

Back to the drawing board. . .

[Mario Proulx]

Just brush-on a couple coats of your favorite oil varnish over the FP, let it cure a couple weeks, then level and polish.

[Dan Pennington]

I've used the Poly Whey on a couple of banjos. I love it. Brushes on milky, then goes clear. Self levels. Dries in two hours for the next coat. Is tougher than french polish.
I bought a pint from Rockler. They sell only the semi-gloss and flat, but the semi gloss is shiny enough for me.

[Waddy Thomson]

You can order it directly from the manufacturer, too. They, now, make an instrument finish version of the product, as well.

[Mario Proulx]

It's still a water based product, though.....

[Alan Carruth]

I've been brushing varnish for years, when I wanted something more durable than FP. Right now I'm finishing up the last of the old 'Rockhard' varnish, and will probably switch to either Pratt & Lambert's #38 or Murdoch's Ur-Alkyd 500. There's a bit of a learning curve with oil varnishes, and they do shrink back more than most finishes, but IMO nothing looks better when well done. They tend to be tougher than many solvent release finishes: easy to dent, perhaps, but hard to scratch.

I do like to use shellac and pumice fill under the varnish, though. When well done it shrinks less than most other fillers. For the latest batch I've been using Brian Burn's 'azeotropic' solvent mix: two parts of acetone to one of alcohol. It evaporates much faster than alcohol alone, and allows for a really fast built, and cuts down the settling time afterward. you do need to use good ventilation, as things can get pretty heady.

I've noticed in the past that using oil varnish over shellac can cause a problem. They have different refractive indexes, so if you sand through the shellac layer any place as you're leveling the varnish the 'light' in the wood will be much different: the shellac area will tend to look muddy in comparison. When I do a pumice fill under varnish I take care to sand allthe shellac off the surface, only leaving the stuff in the pores as a binder.

[Danny Seamon]

Whew!....I didn't know that this was gonna be so complicated. Now I have a lot to think about ...and try. Thanks for all the responses!! I do have one more question though....what is the issue with the water based finishes and how does one go about testing say the Poly Whey for these shortcomings?

[Mario Proulx]

The fact that it is water based means it has shortcomings.... No need for testing. When major users begin to adopt it, -then- give it a try.

[Simon Magennis]

... I've been using Brian Burn's 'azeotropic' solvent mix: two parts of acetone to one of alcohol. It evaporates much faster than alcohol alone, ...

Sounds like it would be a really bad idea to smoke at the same time.

[Craig Bumgarner]

I too like varnish. I've used FP and KTM-9 as well as the trial version of KTM-10, they were okay, especially the KTM-10, but I think my favorite is varnish. Good protection, beautiful refraction of light, ages nicely, even when polished, it is not over the top glossy.

I've used Behlen's Rockhard and like the way it sets up fast and hard, wish it were not quite so dark amber. I've used Z-Spar's Captain's varnish on boats for years and on guitars for a couple. It is slower to set up and get hard, but really pops the grain and has a nice luster when sanded and polished.

Alan, if I may, why are you moving on from Rockhard? What is it that you like about the Pratt & Lambert's #38 or Murdoch's Ur-Alkyd 500?

[Mario Proulx]

I think Rockhard is no longer available...

The Pratt & Lambert H38 is a proven winner, used(quietly/secretly...) by a good many well-known luthiers. Another good choice is Epiphanes' line of marine varnishes, if you can find them. I've used some on a number of mandolins and can vouch for it.