intonation

[Stephen Cowden]

How many cents off are any of you willing to live with?
And how many cents off before it is noticeable to the ear? I realize everyone has different levels of ,for lack of a better term, precision hearing.
Just wondering because some of these tuners say they are accurate to 1/10 of a cent. If the intonation was off even 1/2 cent could anyone pick that up?

[Craig Bumgarner]

How many cents off are any of you willing to live with?

I don't know and would be interested to hear what those who do say, but I think what can be tolerated has a lot to do with the music and the environment in which it is performed. What works for a hard driving acoustic swing band playing fast and furious in a noisy bar might not work at all for a solo classical guitar in a recording studio.

[Craig Bumgarner]

I just had a quick look on-line and found this: The just-noticeable difference is about 4 cents (1 cent = 1 semitone / 100) for the mid-frequency range.

There are a number of on-line tests for distinguishing pitch. Search on "tonometric adaptive pitch test" and you'll get one that is quick and easy to use.

I don't know as much about pitch, pitch theory and hearing as I probably should, but this site says that at 500Hz, semitones are 30Hz apart , the ability to distinguish differences of 6Hz is normal, 3Hz is 1.5Hz is very good and .75Hz is exceptional. One semitone = 100 cents. Assuming I can apply simply math in this case, 6Hz equates to 20 cents, 3Hz = 10 cents and 1.5Hz = 5 cents. So 4-5 cents seems to be the limit for the exceptional ear.

Now that I think about it, that seems to square with my experience with my tuner calibrated in cents. If I'm tuning by ear, I have a hard time getting much closer than 10 cents.

[Mario Proulx]

Some people have much finer ears than most of us, though.

I have both a Petersen Strobo-flip and Strobo-clip. The clip is for every day use, and the flip is my shop unit. The flip -must- be used with a good clip-on pickup if the instrument doesn't have a pickup; trying to use the flip with the built-in mic is an exercise in futility! Trying to set intonation with anything less than these is a waste of time, IMHO. Most every other tuner is way too low in resolution in comparison. I used to think the strobes were unnecessary, too, just like all of you. Until I was given one. Used correctly, these will up your game ten-fold(literally, as they're at least ten times more precise than any other tuner)....

[Craig Bumgarner]

Some people have much finer ears than most of us, though.

Certainly, and I strive for as close as I can get on intonation, within a cent. Interesting your thoughts on strobe tuners. I'll look into that.

[Alan Carruth]

One issue has to do with the reality of equal tempered tuning, which is the default setup for guitars. Some intervals sound 'off' even when they're right, and if the intonation shifts them further in the wrong direction, they're even worse. It's always better to get things to be as exact as you can, I think, if only to mitigate the effects of the inevitable flubs.

Alan Carruth / Luthier

[Doug Shaker]

Has anyone here tried adjusting for intonation at the nut rather than at the saddle? If so, how did it work for you?

I think I understand the logic of doing so, but I wonder how it turns out in practice.

-Doug Shaker

[Doug Shaker]

Has anyone here tried adjusting for intonation at the nut rather than at the saddle? If so, how did it work for you?

I think I understand the logic of doing so, but I wonder how it turns out in practice.

AND, I just took at look at the second half of the thread "Solving the 6th String Intonation Problem"
and it seems to address my question. I will go hence and read.

-Doug Shaker

[Stephen Cowden]

which model is the Peterson Strobo flip?
I wnet to teheir websit but couldn't find the flip.

[Mario Proulx]

http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm?category=37

[Stephen Cowden]

Obviously I didn't read over my previous post. Sorry for the atrocious spelling.

[Arnt Rian]

The Peterson V-Sam tuner I was referring to, is also a strobe tuner (or "virtual stobe", as they call it), and I agree with Mario that its resolution an accuracy makes it a great tool for setting intonation. I'm actually a little surprised by this discussion, I had a feeling these units were pretty much industry standard...?

http://www.petersontuners.com/index.cfm ... =92&sub=72