Zirconia abrasives

[Steve Senseney]

I was browsing the internet for prices for sanding belts for my drum sander.

I now see Zirconia abrasives. I had not run into these products before. I checked with wikipedia, and now know more, but don't find much specific comment about wood working.

If these last longer and work better, then I would consider buying a higher priced product.

Many times, I think my sand paper loads with oil/tar/pitch and gets gummed up before the abrasive wears off however.

Any experience with these products?

[Mario Proulx]

I've wondered the same, and talked to a few abrasive sales reps, and they said it would definitely stay sharp longer, but they also insisted it would be money wasted because they expect the gumming will be the same rate as the typical abrasives we use, and they said that gumming was the real killer, not dulling of the abrasive.

But since the last time I talked to one of these reps, a couple years ago, I've actually kept notes and ALL my belts, and by and large, the abrasive wears and the belts lose their cutting power -before- they get gummed up. In fact, I think I only have one belt that I retired because it became hopelessly gummed-up; even the dull ones aren't really gummed.

Bottom line, before my next order for, I'm insisting(this last sales rep actually refused to even give me a price quote, much less -sell- me some to try) to at least try some on the belt sanders as well as the thickness sander.

Sure be nice if someone else here would try them, first(hint-hint.... <g>).

[Chuck Tweedy]

I used 80-grit zirconia (blue) paper on a sanding dish years ago, and it lasted for a very very long time.
It did not cut as aggressiveness, but it stayed the same for what seemed like forever. Years. (remember I don't build that quickly)
I had bought these sheets at an industrial hardware store, and I really have not seen it around since. Have not been back to Marshall's Hardware since either.

[Steve Senseney]

Thanks for the info.

The Zirconia products seem to be generally available on line, and 20-30 % higher price.

I haven't made up my mind yet!

[Mario Proulx]

The Zirconia products seem to be generally available on line

Got links?

[Steve Senseney]

Here is one--

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/category ... +++X+50+MT

[Mario Proulx]

Klingspor... Bummer; I swore them off years ago. Thanks anyhow.

I'll do some searching when I get a chance to...

[Steve Senseney]

There are other suppliers. Google for " sandpaper belt drum sander" and/or add zirconia.

[Bob Gramann]

Supergrit (Red Hat) has them : http://supergrit.com/products/products_ ... rconia.asp

I ordered a few and didn't feel that I got much more life out of them than I did with the regular aluminum oxide. I go for cheap with (with no bump) so I can change them without emotion when they stop cutting.

[David King]

Mario, I'm curious as to why you have a negative view of klingspor. They have some of my absolutely favorite products. I've found the pricing and the quality to be quite acceptable across most of their range. Now that I can't get Norton 3-X locally, I'm considering them for sheet paper as well.

[Mario Proulx]

Where to start...

The abrasive, no matter the type, never seemed to stay sharp as long as I would have expected.

The heavy cloth backing of the abrasive used on the thickness sander stretched continuously, requiring me to stop mid-job to re-wrap the drum. A few times I would ignore the warning signs, and it would tear itself to shreds, costing me one nice red spruce guitar top once...

The finer grits(I had 6" PSA discs all the way to P1500) would sometimes have one or two random larger pieces of "grit", causing a deep swirl, often requiring me to back-up and return to the spray booth for a few more coats. Not fun, this!

The adhesive on the PSA discs was horrible! If left in place for an hour, it would adhere so strongly that the paper would tear, and I'd have to use a razor blade or scraper to get the rest of it off the pad. And yet they would sometimes not adhere well enough and, especially when wet sanding, come right off the pad! Ridiculous!

I've never had any of the above issues with 3M or SIA abrasives....

[David King]

Fair enough!
I use their belts because they fit my Grizzly 6 x 80, they run straight and have a smooth joint. It's true they don't last forever but I feel like I get pretty good mileage compared to the other brands I've tried. The PSA paper will acquire a death grip if you don't wax the surface first. I've wasted many days trying to get the stickum off until I tried a light wipe of carnauba every few weeks. I haven't had strips stretching on the drum sander but I tape down the ends with a strip of double sided tape on the inside and a freezer tape on the outside. Never a problem since then but I also change the strip as soon as it gets the least bit dull so I never experience any overheating either.

If you haven't tried their silicon carbide ultraflex pads you are in for a treat. Nothing else like them on earth for finish sanding. They last for months at a buck a piece and the grit breaks down way more consistently than micromesh. (Their 320 pad is equivalent to about 800 grit in 3M imperial.)
I use a lot of 3M gold paper along with the Imperial 1200 and 2000 but the pads put both of those to shame on anything other than a flat surface.
Sandpaper is about the most important tool we use in terms of time so it's always good to start with the best available regardless of cost.

[Mario Proulx]

What's "freezer tape"?

The abrasive wouldn't come loose on the drum, it would stretch! I thought I had an issue with how I was attaching it to the drum, but after suspecting that it was stretching, I marked the ends, and sure enough, after a half dozen passes, the ends hadn't budged at all, yet the abrasive was loose on the drum. Take one end off, snug it all back up, snug it down, do another half dozen or dozen passes, stop, repeat the tightening .... Life's too short to work with junk like this! It had nothing to do with overworking it, either, as I work the SIA abrasives the exact same way, and never have to tighten them. Just put them on, use 'em until dead, and change 'em.

What are these ultraflex pads you speak of? Do they come in a 6" PSA disc? Same adhesive issues? I'm not a Micromesh fan, so don't have a frame of reference there.

I actually don't use a whole lot of sandpaper, but when I do use it, I can't stand to work with junk.

[David King]

Freezer tape is what some of us use to hold binding in place when gluing. I've talked to klingspor's tech about that cloth weight to use on a drum sander and they were very specific about the correct designation to avoid the stretching issue. I wonder if you got a bad batch? I would try calling them as they take their customer service very seriously and spend a lot of time getting their formulations to work well in the application.
I don't see any sign of the ultraflex pads in anything but 5 x 8" rectangles for hand sanding. It would be worth asking them about that too as they do a lot more industrial business than just retail woodworkers and they have several catalogues.

[Mario Proulx]

Freezer tape is what some of us use to hold binding in place when gluing.

That's nice, but still doesn't tell me what freezer tape is...?

I did call them, and I did work with a rep regarding my needs, as I do with any company. I always assume they know their products better than I do. Bottom line is that -none- of their products performed on par with the products I had been using. No need to re-visit a failed effort, especially on my dime.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I don't get fooled twice very often....

[Darrel Friesen]

Freezer or butchers tape is essentially the same thing as Stew Macs binding tape.

[Simon Magennis]

Not directly related as I don't know if they have a Zirconia line.

I get roles on ebay here in Germany made by this company http://www.indasausa.com/ - USA site. Indasa is a Portuguese company. I find it good value here. I am using it for hand-sanding not machine sanding. Might be worth a look. On the Portuguese website (http://www.indasa.pt/index.php) there are links to its other sites.

[David King]

Freezer tape is 3M Scotch #178. There are other brands out there. It's a brown paper tape that has low stretch and good tensile strength, the adhesive is very grippy and doesn't creep. Handy stuff to have around for all kinds of little clamping jobs.

[Mario Proulx]

For sure, if you're using that to hold the abrasive onto the drum, you'll never come near working it hard enough to stretch it.

We're comparing apples to carrots....

[David King]

It's just an added precaution to keep a loose end from overlapping when the clamps start to loose their grip. (I also use double sided tape on the underside at the ends.) It's true I don't work my sander very hard. I use it for fine sanding to final dimension not for hogging off loads of wood. I might remove .2mm per side with 180 grit if the resaw is running correctly. At most I'm taking .005" in a pass. Anything more than that and I end up with tapered lozenges of wood that are pretty useless.