Classical style guitar with steel strings?

[Bill Bell]

I made a couple of classical guitars a while back and was thinking about making the same guitar but a steel string. Of course I would change the plate thickness and use X bracing but is there anything else I should be doing differently? I like the smaller body size and already have the "Fox style" bender I made. Should it be a 12 or 14 fret neck...does it matter? How about scale length, I'm thinking maybe a little on the shorter side?

[Patrick Hanna]

Hi, Bill. I think you are essentially talking about building a steel string flat top with the body shape of a classical--correct? I see no reason why it can't be done, but you might need to move some of the key features around a bit. One thing you will need to consider is scale length. It will determine where your bridge must be placed on the top, and also where your x-brace intersects underneath. Neck length (12 or 14-fret) will also determine bridge placement. Your steel string will probably have a narrower neck and a radiused fretboard. Your neck will most likely meet the body at a different angle than your classical's neck angle, so you'll want to draw it in profile as well as an overhead plan. Study some small body steel string guitar plans and then transfer those necks and scales to your body shape (or the other way around) to determine where key features will locate on the box (bridge, braces, sound hole, etc.) You will soon know whether you can make it work to your satisfaction. If not, I'm sure you can make a nice, small bodied guitar from a different plan.

[Trevor Gore]

Go for it!

Here's one I made for a classical player who basically wanted a classical guitar with steel strings and here's another, made from "alternative" materials.

The critical things are to get the bracing in the right place for the scale length and frets to the body you have chosen (650mm works fine if you have fretting templates. 25.4", the standard Martin scale, is 646mm; not enough difference to alter things significantly) and to get the neck angle right, as Patrick says.

The neck angle might be problematic, depending on your build technique. If you use a conventional, face down solera technique, you will likely have to change it significantly to get the neck angle right. If you build the neck and body as separates, no big changes in infrastructure, but you still have to get it right.

Regarding 12 or 14 frets - either "works", of course, but I have always preferred 12 frets (and cutaways, if desired).

[Brad Heinzen]

I've done this before as well. It works out just fine. They're really not much different from 00's. I used a CG solera with a shim at the end of the neck extension to get the neck angle where I wanted it. I also may have let the dome continue up through the soundhole a bit more than I normally do for CG's. All the bracing had to be setup accordingly, but it wasn't any trouble. I also prefer twelve frets to the body in this format.

[Alan Carruth]

That's basically what the Martin size 00 is. I've made quite a few of these, with both 12- and 14-fret necks, and they work fine. As Trevor says, pay attention to the bracing and sound hole location. They can be pretty lightly built, and often are more powerful than you might expect. The main thing you lose is the big bass sound of a larger guitar, but you make up for it in power and 'carry', IMO. They also work well in 'alternative' materials: you don't necessarily need the low damping of a rosewood back to get the trebles to work well.

Alan Carruth / Luthier

[Mark Swanson]

Another example of such a guitar is the Gibson LG-1, with ladder bracing, and the superior LG-2, with X-bracing. Gibson used the same exact shape for the LG guitars and their classical guitars.

[Clay Schaeffer]

The LG's had 14 fret necks which also worked out fine with that body shape.

[Patrick Hanna]

Yes, I own an LG-1 and it is, indeed, of similar body shape to a classical. I have never seen a Gibson classical, but Mark is probably correct in his assertion that Gibson made their classicals in this body shape. I do believe the body shape of my Bouchet style guitar is prettier than my LG-1. One thing I came to dislike about my LG-1 was its very narrow neck width. If you find an LG plan to study, I do recommend you alter the neck to more of a standard width. But if the length, scale, etc. work for you, then I think you should go for it! Another note: My little guitar seemed to bottom out below the A string. Notes on the bass E always seemed to thump to me, rather than deliver a nice,clear bass response. I believe Mark is also correct in his statement that the ladder bracing scheme on the LG-1 was inferior to the x-brace scheme in other LG series guitars. I have never built two to compare, but I'm pretty sure the X-brace scheme wins in this case. You've got a lot of encouragement so far. Ergo, trace out the body shape you prefer. Match it to the scale and neck length that works best for you, most likely fashion an X-brace, beware of a too-narrow neck, and then straight ahead. Go for it!

[Mark Swanson]

Yes, you're right Patrick. Almost every LG-1 I have ever seen sounded tubby and dead on the lower notes. And the nut width is terribly thin for me. I don't know why they made them that way, but in the LG-2 both of those troubles are gone! They have a better tone and don't drop out in the bottom and the nut is a full 1-3/4".

[Ken Franklin]

I made a steel string guitar based on a Rodriguez body that came out nicely. It has 13 frets to the body with a 25.4" scale. I like where the bridge ended up with that combination. The top has a 30' dome. It's x-braced with two tonebars. The first is scalloped and the second is smaller and tapered. The tone is clear and full with plenty of bass, though not quite like a larger guitar. I liked it so much I'm making another.

[Bill Bell]

Ken, very nice that looks like what I'm talking about. I didn't think of a 13 fret neck but I guess why not, like you said it seemed to feel right where the bridge wound up. On the classical I built I thinned the fretboard toward the bridge to get relief and it worked well, has anybody tried this on a steel string? The neck angle on a steel string is only one degree I think on average?

[Ken Franklin]

Bill, I build with a 30' radius dome and that usually means a neck angle of 1.2-1.5 degrees. With that angle I don't have to taper the fretboard.

[Jim Kirby]

Larrivee L body - also basically a classical body, with the bridge moved north to allow for a 14 fret neck, which is largely compensated by the extra space below the crossing of the X. I really like mine, which is from 1994, but I think they have always been basically the same. I think it was the first steel string Larrivee built - he was originally trained as a classical builder, if I'm not mistaken (wouldn't be the first time).