Why Not use thicker Binding instead of Perfling?

[Phillip Lee]

Hello everyone. I am a bit perplexed as to why perfling is used, a separate groove routed, all the trouble installing(as well as removing, which I am doing). Why not use thicker multi-ply binding and get the same effect(especially if it is differently colored plys)?

[Nick Dingle]

Seems to me that if you keep cutting your binding channel deeper, you may very easily separate your top and back plates from the sides by cutting through your kerfing before getting too far...

I use triangular kerfing, and at 6mm deep into the sides, 2-4 extra mm would just cut the things through.

[Simon Magennis]

I have seen pictures somewhere of it being done that way. But as Nick says you are limited by the thickness of the kerfing. If you have a quite thin binding and just one or two strips of a thin purfling, the it probably works just fine. I've never done this, just reporting hearsay based on pictures I saw on the net.

[Dick (DT) Trottier]

You also have to bend the bindings. Just like the sides, going thicker makes bending much more difficult, more likely to crack or buckle.

[Clay Schaeffer]

I use reverse kerfed linings which are basically rectangular in cross section with a roundover on one edge. I often cut the binding and purfling channels to the same depth. For wider purfles like herringbones, etc. cutting a separate shallower channel makes more sense.

[Dave Stewart]

Purfling in violins etc, set in a groove inset from the edge, is meant mainly to structurally reinforce the edge to prevent splitting of the plates. I'd suggest in guitars it serves the same function, plus a wider harder binding is added against impact.

[Greg Robinson]

As Dave Stewart observed, I'd say it's probably the influence of the viol family. The purfling on a violin is very important in controlling the "pumping" action of the top and sound production, as well as hugely influencing tone, a violin without purfling does not sound right.
I'd guess that guitars copied the purfling from the viol family, but binding was also added to protect the edges from damage, as they are flush with the sides unlike a violins overlap.
Adding purflings also changes the tone of a guitar, Alan Carruth has mentioned measuring (and I'm going from memory here) a drop in frequency of one of the top modes after purfling is installed.
So, bindings and purflings are different features with different purposes, and there are reasons why the two are installed differently.

[Phillip Lee]

I appreciate the input. I have been removing old Perf and Bind for three days now with dental picks and razor blades under a magnifying glass. This stuff clings for life unlike the other removal experience stories I have read. I really considered routing off the second ledge that held 2mm perfling and just building up the layers while replacing. But tonight, the channels are clean and waiting on some LMC supplies I probably miss-measured.

[Phillip Lee]

I might as well explain a little further in hopes it may help someone else, though it is indeed a repair subject. I discovered the heavily cracked top finish on my 62 Hoyer was polyester and a heat gun was the best answer for removal. Though it worked well and didn't loosen any interior planks I feel it melted the binding into the grooves of the side. A few sections caught fire and charred to ash, for a moment I considered doing the whole circumference in this way.. but time, patience, and good razor blades with heavy magnification brought the grooves out to a tolerable level of cleanliness. I have never removed or installed this material so another challenge awaits.

[Mario Proulx]

Oy, vey....

[Chuck Tweedy]

Wow!
Did you come here earlier to get advise on removal of the finish?
Or removal of the binding?

I can't help you with removal of the finish (though it sounds like you did that - I tremble at that thought of the fumes you have survived)

To remove binding that is melted into it's groove requires that you rout it out.
That means that you need to have a binding router setup, and you need to match the depth of both ledges (in two passes minimum).

[Phillip Lee]

Thanks Chuck. I'm not exactly a novice at this sort of thing, perhaps I made it sound worse than it is. Heat removal of polyester is the only way. The grooves will not need routing after careful removal of the offending binding, it actually looks great. Sometimes restorations get a little down and dirty but safe work techniques should eliminate a "Fear of Fumes" or you don't need to be in this sort of business. The Hoyer guitars of the 60's were actually well made instruments but I am sick of seeing this rippled cracked finish that diminishes tone instead of enhancing it. I am a sound freak and wish to obtain the best tone possible hence the decision to remove the tops finish. This is no attempt to make something old look new, rather, retain the character age has imparted and end up with better tone.