Hardware-store "tuning machine" ideas for ultra-budget lap steel

[RD Yazidi]

Technically I'm building a solid-body electric guitar, and the concepts are probably some that super-budget electric builders have explored previously, so I figured this would be best here.

Long story short, I'm trying to build the world's cheapest / smallest lap steel (or something approximating it anyway) on a 10" scale, using aluminum angle and a chunk of 2x4. I'm stringing it with the smallest plainwounds I can find (which, at 10", are unfortunately still not small enough).

More long stories short, I am trying to avoid using conventional tuning machines to keep both cost and build complexity as far down the foot chain as possible. It would be really nice if I could build more of these absurd things for like $20 or less a pop in an afternoon each as "gateway drugs" for lap-steel-curious friends.



Right now I have three panhead screws on each string serving the roles of "locking nuts" and actual tuners. The back two screws hold down the string as taut as I can possibly get it by hand (which is to say, not very taut), the screw closest to the "nut" actually serves to bring the string to pitch by changing the final break angle as it is brought in and out of the 2x4 with a screwdriver.

To my surprise, this actually works... to a degree. It just can't get the strings as tight / high-pitched as they ought to be given the ridiculously small scale, and there's too much time consumed and unpredictability (and physical pain!) bringing the system to initial pitch "by hand" on each string before lockdown.

I've spent a few hours cruising the hardware aisles trying to find a combo of off-the-shelf parts that would get me a more viable tuning / string retention system. I haven't been able to find much that would work. (The lug terminal at the top of the "headstock" was a failed experiment in fashioning a tensioning crank, usable for all strings, that could be used before locking the string down initially; it doesn't work, unless the goal is to break a string in record time.)

I'd be happy with just a hand-turnable tensioning crank that worked, as just one such device would let me keep the blissfully / stupidly simple screw setup. But I can't seem to find the magic parts in the Home Depot / Ace hardware drawers that would let me put one together.

I'm open to any / all MacGyveresque ideas for any kind of tuning alternative to the absurdity of... this... but using parts that I don't have to go out and special-order at the machine shop, of course. Anyone got any ideas I could try?

[Dan Warren]

Wow, I thought I was cheap. You might have an easier time cobbling together a portuguese-style tuner from hardware parts than a standard one; see http://www.mandolinluthier.com/fado_page.htm for what I'm talking about. I'm attempting to attach a diagram of what I'm envisioning:

side view, per string

ghetto-tuner.jpg (6.77 KiB) Viewed 24787 times

You could tie the string somehow to the wood block (or put the ball end on that end), then let the screw do the tensioning. Seriously though, I've bought a set of 6 standard guitar tuners on craigslist for 10 bucks before. I don't know where you are, but cheap, real parts may be closer than you think.

[Peter Wilcox]

I just used steel rod press fit into a hole - it holds the tension fine. The end is filed to a square profile so you can turn it with a wrench. I initially made fine tuners from machine screws, but these were unnecessary - it's easy to adjust the pitch just with a wrench. On a lap steel, where you may not have access to the bottom end of the rod, you could make the top square, then have a portion of the round rod with the string hole in it just above the entrance into the wood.

[Warren May]

Brings to mind a short scale dulcimer or harp type instrument. It's surprising how much tension the dulcimer pins will hold without slipping but it may not work with pine so adding some sort of pin block of, say, maple would be inexpensive but do the job, wouldn't it? My local big box rarely has maple but always has oak so it might be worth experimenting with adding some sort of hardwood pin block. The screws you have could work, too, in the same way as a dulcimer pin by carefully drilling a hole in the screw and wrapping the string around the post to lock it. I think the failure of the screw to hold it against the pine seems to be your issue and most pins use a hole with proper wrapping to combat that.

[RD Yazidi]

Thanks for all the feedback. I had in fact just begun considering using a harder wood and zither pins, which is basically what both Warren and Peter propose. (Peter, I really like that Tele neck - is that hickory?) The pine actually isn't posing *that* much of a problem with the screws, once a string is tuned to pitch *and* has had all the hidden tension knocked out of it behind the nut etc., it actually holds pitch just about perfectly over prolonged stretches; the problem is more of an issue getting the string "pretensioned" to tune it as high as needed. If I went to zither pins proper or something like Peter's hand-fashioned version, though, I am quite sure I would not be able to get by with something as soft as pine.

One thing I'm thinking about and may try is the possibility of a nylon screw drilled through as a zither pin, at least as a tensioning-crank mechanism. So far I have not been able to drill through any of the galvanized screws I have on hand to make a string slot.

Dan, I have plenty of non-cheap / high-quality instruments. Part of the thrill is to see if I can make something musically useful for a Jackson or less, and design it as something any dumbkopf can build with minimal time consumed.

Geared tuners are available for even less than $10 a set going the eBay route (if you can wait for overseas post), but one problem involves the limited tuning options for an instrument this small, if you want more than joke-level harmonic possibilities. This thing probably can't be tuned to an open m7 chord like a conventional steel with the string gauges available; a scalar tuning like the Jerry Byrd tuning is the best option. You are going to need more than six strings if you want anything approaching chordal versatility with that kind of tuning.

Since tuners are usually sold in units of six, you'd need two sets and also a keyhead, which adds a lot of cost and build time. I had thought of / seen a solution something like the one you drew up, using U-channel instead of wood, but ultimately this too would add a lot of complexity to the build.

Those fado guitars are absolutely beautiful, by the by.

[Hans Bezemer]

You can use a wingnut and a bolt.
I've used this method for a simple cigarboxguitar and it worked fine.
http://www.cyberferal.com/

You can also check http://windworld.com/, they sell medium size tuners in any quantity you want.

[Peter Wilcox]

(Peter, I really like that Tele neck - is that hickory?)

It's Lyptus, from the scrap heap of a cabinet shop. I made the whole guitar for $5.00, so you can do it easily. What kind of pickup are you using - that is the most expensive part of anything I've made, even winding it myself.

Subsequent to this, I found a box of 200 piano pins at a yard sale for 75 cents, so I'm set for life for ultra cheap tuners.

[RD Yazidi]

Hans, the wingnut solution looks good (way easier than individual blocks of wood or u-channel). I'm gonna go try that, thank you so much for the heads-up.

Peter, do you have a thread on that guitar? I can't believe you did all that for $5 (and I'm super jealous of your pinblock pin score too). I'm just using a piezo pulled from an RS buzzer for now, future "design revisions" might be altered to accommodate some leftover DiMarzios I have sitting around, but I really wanted 3/8" string spacing on this one for some reason.

[Peter Wilcox]

RD - the guitar was built as part of the 2009 MIMF $100 Tele challenge, from scrap wood, and hardware/electronics from a junked copy machine. The thread is long gone.

[RD Yazidi]

RD - the guitar was built as part of the 2009 MIMF $100 Tele challenge, from scrap wood, and hardware/electronics from a junked copy machine. The thread is long gone.

Aww man, I bumped into a mention of that as a prizewinner but couldn't find the thread. I *really* wanted to see what you did with the the copy machine guts.

I put on the wingnut tuner "array" yesterday and it works very well, at least with one row of original screws left in to get the over-nut break angle right - thanks so much, Hans. The hardest part is cutting the string to the right length before tying it on, I keep cutting off either too much or too little! Once it's on, though, it works really well. I'm kind of surprised at how "tolerant" the system is with sketchy-looking knots over the wingnut end.

At this scale, I could also use one storebought .009 / .008 for *two* strings on the guitar to save even more cash - but I haven't figured out what to tie onto the spare string as a fake ball end (I'm using a conventional Tele-style through-body string retention "system"). So far I haven't been able to tie a workable stopper knot with a string this small. I may go raid the hardware store again for some very small metric-size nuts.

[Hans Bezemer]

RD,

It is hard to make a knot in the string. What I do is making a loop of the string by putting the string through the "eye" of the ball end. Then I put the loop around the wingnut and fasten the string end with a "kroonsteen". I don't know the English word for it, but I've attached a picture.

Hans

[RD Yazidi]

Hans, that's an interesting method, I may try that for a second build. I can't tell for sure but I think your kroonsteen is the same thing I've been trying to find in US hardware stores for the last few weeks. I found this fretless guitar build where a guy is using something that looks very similar; he calls them "connector lugs," but as best I can tell the right name for them in the US is "lug terminal."

http://i.imgur.com/EVQXk.jpg

If you look, I actually have one of these mounted to the very top of my "guitar" in the first picture / post, but the set screw cannot reach the floor of the terminal, so this one cannot be used to retain / hold down a small-gauge string unless I can find a longer screw that will fit it.

I am still looking for lug terminals that will hold such a string... it is proving very difficult to find them.

[Hans Bezemer]

RD,

Your right they are the same. Someone told me once that the type you have are used for industrial "heavier" use, to hold thicker wire (maybe that's the reason it doesn't goes all the way down).
As an alternative you can drill a hole in a big(ger) bolt (like a zither pin) and use that to pull the string tight and use your wingnut tuner one the other side for fine tuning.
Good luck with the rest of the build, I'm looking forward to see it finished.

btw In the Netherlands the smaller type "kroonsteen" is sold in every DIY-store so there should be a easy way for you to get some in the US.

[Peter Wilcox]

Those are called terminal blocks - many different sizes and styles should be available at your local electronics supply store or online, and most likely in junk electronics and copy machines :>). Radio Shack even has the European style pictured in Hans' post.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2103232

[RD Yazidi]

Thanks again, Hans and Peter. Having already spent way too long in the electrical aisles of every hardware store in town, I had not thought to check Radio Shack for some reason, nor had I looked at connected "non-single" units or nylon-encased offerings. Seems terminology is a little vague here in general; a quick Google search for "terminal block" gives me an awful lot of hits for what I would normally call a barrier strip, which I didn't think would work quite as well for this particular type of abuse (but who knows).

[Greg Robinson]

Hans, that's an interesting method, I may try that for a second build. I can't tell for sure but I think your kroonsteen is the same thing I've been trying to find in US hardware stores for the last few weeks. I found this fretless guitar build where a guy is using something that looks very similar; he calls them "connector lugs," but as best I can tell the right name for them in the US is "lug terminal."

http://i.imgur.com/EVQXk.jpg

If you look, I actually have one of these mounted to the very top of my "guitar" in the first picture / post, but the set screw cannot reach the floor of the terminal, so this one cannot be used to retain / hold down a small-gauge string unless I can find a longer screw that will fit it.

I am still looking for lug terminals that will hold such a string... it is proving very difficult to find them.

Hi RD,
I've changed the inline image you included in your post to a link, as we ask that you only post images you have created yourself, as otherwise is a violation of copyright law, and this rule is designed to protect the MIMForum from litigation. You're always welcome to link to the source of an image however.

Thanks.

[RD Yazidi]

Greg, sorry about that. Unfretted has some kind of silly Javascript going on which prevents easy acquisition of direct image links, otherwise I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of screencapping and reposting either. Shan't happen again.

[Greg Robinson]

No worries Rd, but you should make sure to familiarize yourself with the Forum policy.
Thanks for your understanding!