Erik Hokanson's new Fan Fret Cutaway

[Erik Hokanson]

Here She is.
Indian Rosewood/Sitka
25.5'" and 28.5"

[Erik Hokanson]

Back and Cutaway.
This thing has been a real challenge. I'm working at the outside edge of my skill level. As always with these floating bridge guitars, the sound is loud and brash and will warm up in about a week, I still need to tweak things to make it feel better, but I feel like I built a Ferrari, or maybe an MG, something that will perform beautifully but always be in the shop.
All hot hide glue, except a few dashes of CA in some of the inlay, oh and some epoxy in some inlay.
The headstock is the most difficult part of building for me, I'm tempted to unglue the headstock and graft on a new one that looks and works better.

[Erik Hokanson]

any objections to the plywood neckblock?
tthe next instrument will definately have much taller braces. I'm a little worried about this. Any thoughts about using classical style fan braces on a floating bridge top?

[Mark Swanson]

Those would be ladder braces, not fan braces. They were typically used on floating bridge guitars.
About the plywood, it's all about the quality of the plywood you use. There's lots of different types, some is made of very high quality hardwood laminations. The plywood here seems a bit thick, and from what I can see it doesn't look like the good quality hardwood stuff. You could probably get by with good quality 1/4" thick stock if you use it this way. But don't try to use regular softwood plywood that thin!

[Chuck Tweedy]

Yea, what Mark said.
And, what is wrong with the headstock? Looks pretty good, and it's functional - right??

All in all, pretty good. It's a great thing working at the edge of your skill level, you are going to learn a lot!

Sometimes I feel like walking across the street is working at the edge of my skill level

[Erik Hokanson]

Mark,
I was asking about fan braces as a thought for an upcoming project. This guitar does indeed use ladder braces.
The plywood in the neck block is the cheap stuff. 1/2" CDX. I figured it's really just an anchor point, mostly in compression, so as long as it does not crack, crumble, or delaminate, things should be fine. I just cant imagine how using it affects the overall sound.
Chuck,
I will conjure up the nerve to post a pic of the headstock, then you will see. All this work, and it ends up like that! I didnt even bother to finish sand and put varnish on. Live and learn.
And thank you!

[Chuck Tweedy]

so as long as it does not crack, crumble, or delaminate, things should be fine

Yea, those are the problems with cheap ply. It will probably crush significantly under the bolt, and it may delam - but only due to the stress around the bold. Big washers will help.

[Mark Swanson]

As long as it stays solid for you then it will probably work. But it's a bit big for what you need.
A little while back I had a guitar that had a neck joint much like this one. I had also used plywood in the same way you used it here, and I used a piece that I thought would be strong enough- and it wasn't. The piece gave out on me, and while I was able to play the guitar for a while before the failure became impossible to deal with I noticed something. While I was playing it, the guitar had a weak bass and sounded dead on all the lower strings. Then I fixed that neck block, and solidified everything and I was shocked at how much better the guitar sounded! I learned all about the effects of a poor neck joint! I didn't think it would matter but my neck joint was sapping all of the tone and power out of the guitar. When the neck was firmly mounted my tone came back in a big way.

[Jason Rodgers]

Wherever your skill level is at with the wood, you have some good skills with design, and your persistence with the fan-fret feature is commendable.

With those ladder braces, it seems like you've been looking at Sel-Macs. What are the dimensions on those braces? Did you do any lateral or longitudinal arching? I can't remember from your previous guitars: does that bridge have feet or continuous contact across its length? Can we get a picture from the side, across the top?

Hope it holds up!

[Erik Hokanson]

Great! I will stand corrected.
My last instrument and this one have block made in the same way. The bass on this fan fret job is weak for sure, which should not be the case with a 28.5" E string. But the other one which has been alive for a few months -the bass has really opened up. But I will henceforth be using some kind of hardwood invention in place of the CDX. Oh, and I've been using these big Euro 50 cent coins with a hole drilled in them as a washer with a brass wingnut to hold it all together. I love that I can take everything apart easily. This thing you relate is revelatory. Thank you.

[Erik Hokanson]

Dear Jason,
I have been looking at selmacs.
The top is barelled not domed. It's about 61" wide and has about 1/2" arch. But the string tension changed everything. The break angle is very slight, just enough so the bridge doesn't shift aroundwhen playing hard. I figure that too much down bearing only inhibits vibration. But he string tension has warped the top in a weird way. I may be tearing this one apart in a year.
The bridge has three feet and when I establish the curve I use sandpaper taped to the top and scratch around until the bottom of the bridge chunk matches the curve of the top, and then I carve everything into something that looks guitary

[Erik Hokanson]

Oops I posted
Before I was done. iPad.
I try to make the bridge a light as possible with the least contact possible. Basically the bridge is hollow. On this one, I left some heft in the bridge because the really light bridge I made caused the guitar to sound just like a banjo! That was scary. I build light.
Correction, guitar is about 16" wide.

[Jason Rodgers]

Describe the "warping" that you're observing. Is the lateral arch being flattened? Is there a dip between the two braces, in the middle of the bridge? Whatever it is, if the minimal break angle is causing significant distortion in the top, then it might be a little too lightly built.

[Erik Hokanson]

Yup. Too light. I think I'm going to make this guitar again, but a 26.5" single scale and a taller Xbrace instead of ladder brace.
I could perhaps raise the break angle even more to minimize the distortion on this one, and it may richen the sound, and give me more volume. Just in the last couple days the bass has opened up and the whole thing has evened out.
I just recieved materials for my next build from this place called Euphonon in New Hampshire, prices are really low, and good quality, I could forward his info if anyone is interested, he does things old school, no website or credit cards.

[Mark Swanson]

I don't see any top distortion in that photo Erik. And how would raising the break angle help you? If you make the bridge higher and have more angle then you'll simply be pushing down even harder on the top.

[Jason Rodgers]

Yeah, the lower bout doesn't look like it's having problems in that picture. Is there something happening at the soundhole, though?

For the next instrument, maybe try this:

1. Stick to the ladder braces. Look up the dimensions and brace locations used in the Sel-Macs. They will probably be too beefy for what you're doing, but you can always shave them down. I think you need to get the bridge and braces matched up better.

2. Do a slightly less dramatic spread with the scale lengths, like 25.5" to 26.5". That way, the bridge can still be in the same neighborhood as a single-scale instrument.

[Erik Hokanson]

Ya but!
I love the huge spread. It looks cool. But you are maybe right. I think it's not so important to do this multiscale thing anyway. Or maybe I need to get my structural engineering in order.
The thing happening at the sound hole is a result of the string tension pulling my under-braced top with the added stress of the downbearing on the bridge causing a weird new shape I did not anticipate.
It may serve me to pop the back off and carve off the braces and rethink this. I suspect two braces running parallel to the strings north of the upper ladder brace would help to keep things flat where I want that.
Furthermore, I look at these things that I make as individual architectural entities where everything's relative to the present conditions. I know it's probably bad, but I only break out the ruler when it's absolutely necessary. I will research the selmac bracing and see how it relates proportionately to what I'm doing. I play selmac type guitars that I see cats playing in bars in Brooklyn and my guitars are much louder, if perhaps not so complex. I will henceforth brace taller.
Oh, one more thing, the outer feet of my bridge on this one sit on the upper and lower ladder braces. Is this desirable?
You guys are good.

You have good eye.

[Jason Rodgers]

Yes, the bridge feet or ends usually sit on, or cross over, main braces to support torque or down-pressure. In the Sel-Mac design, the bridge sits between the two middle braces (that design has 4 or 5 braces- one above and one below the soundhole, two together at the bridge, and sometimes one between the bridge and tail), but there are also two short longitudinal braces under the actual bridge feet (the "moustaches" are glued to the top with a narrow floating bridge between). Keep at it!

[Tom O'Brien]

I've used plywood for neck blocks, but it isn't the kind of plywood you can get at Lowes or HD. I work in a piano restoration shop and use maple pinblock laminate sometimes. There's tons of it laying around the shop and it's seemingly indestructible. The manufacturing process is entirely different from normal plywood. It works great for molds, jigs and fixtures when you need something sturdy and are willing to put up with the weight and hardness of the material.